PIN2DMD EVO HD - upgrade to 256x64 resolution

[lucky1]

3 hours ago, Rene368 said:

Ok. But you also have this jumper in the EVO HD design. I just copied it.

It's in the same way connected as in your design: in off the signal goes through the LS123, in on the signal takes the shorter route overruling the LS123. Please see attatched picture.

Maybe you could clarify this for me.

First design was without LS123 but that made problems. I left it in the EVO schematics for testing to have better access to the input pin of the CPU the LS123 is attached to.

[Rene368]

21 minutes ago, lucky1 said:

First design was without LS123 but that made problems. I left it in the EVO schematics for testing to have better access to the input pin of the CPU the LS123 is attached to.

Ah, for testing.

Then I will leave it out. 

 

If there is more feedback or questions, also from other people, feel free to post.

[Ashram56]

Short story: Silicon supply being as it is, ie difficult, I'd like to check on whether the STM32H743VIT6 can be used on a regular PIN2DMD board ?

 

Long story: I wanted to arrange a build of a few 256*64 panels. It looks like the STM32H743VIT6 is more easily available (although none in stock right now in most places) but most importantly price is not completely ludicrous.

 

However to secure supply you need to place an order of a MoQ of about 90 units... More than what I will ever need.

 

Hence the question: is it possible to use the STM32H743VIT6 on a regular PIN2DMD board. That would open the possibilities, I know a few people that would be interested into building batches, so this inventory of 90 parts could go away relatively quickly (although relative is a rather loose term).

 

Regards

 

[lucky1]

1 hour ago, Ashram56 said:

is it possible to use the STM32H743VIT6 on a regular PIN2DMD board.

 

STM32H743VIT6 is neither pin compatible nor firmware compatible to the STM32F4 used on EVO128x32 or EVO XL

[Ashram56]

Thanks, that clarifies. I was starting to look at the datasheet to check on pinout compatibility, but since you already provided the answer.

 

Given the current pricing of the STM32F4, guess we'll have to wait quite a while to be able to build PIN2DMD again, unless a redesign of the board is done to accomodate easier to source components

 

Regards

[lucky1]

The H7 is not easier to source than a STM32F4. As soon as we switch over to the H7 the chinese manufacturer will also raise the prices for those MPU types. 

IMHO there is no real shortage in the MPUs needed for PIN2DMD it is just an excuse to get higher prices for the components you currently need. 

[Ashram56]

I beg to differ

 

Turns out I work in the silicon industry (as in manufacturer of complex ICs). There's shortage almost everywhere, especially complex ICs.

 

Our own components now have a leadtime of between 30 and 40 weeks. I've seen components (FPGAs, FPDLink transceivers, etc) have leadtime ABOVE one year. And I can definitely tell you it's not just an excuse to get higher prices.

 

I can't really say about the STM32 part, for us (meaning my company) however what I noticed is that there has been several "grey distributors" who essentially siphoned the available inventory from regular distributors to then inflate the price. But they would not be able to inflate if there was a decent supply in the first place, which there isn't.

 

I'll check with my direct contacts at STM (as I have some, precisely on the STM32 product line) just to get a feeling of where they are right now

 

[Ashram56]

So I had a quick discussion with a few sources:

 

- STM32 is one of the most affected part in the WW silicon shortage (along with FPGAs)

- Leadtime for the ST32H part is ... 46 weeks. ST32F is even more constrained 

- Price increase is the result of broker having siphoned the inventory pre shortage, and indeed playing market demand pricing. If you connect to Farnell/Arrow/RS, who do not price based on market trend but have usually a fixed margin applied to their buying price, so as a result you will notice their price has not increased, but they don't have any inventory

 

If you take a look at Farnell website, they show availability of the STM32F part for... January 2023...

They "seem" to have some availability of the STM32H part for next week, however it's unclear whether this is the result of a running stock and how many parts they will get 

 

RS does not have any inventory nor visibility on availability of STM32F nor STM32H

 

So bottom line, looks like swithing is not an option either, even with a redesign (unless this is changed to a completely different microcontroller), since supply is highly unpredictable.

 

And it's going to last for the foreseeable future (at least one year by the current estimate)

 

Regards

[lucky1]

35 minutes ago, Ashram56 said:

- Price increase is the result of broker having siphoned the inventory pre shortage, and indeed playing market demand pricing.

 

That is what I meant with no real shortage. Depending on your "negotiation skills" the prices for a F4 differ from double to 10 times the old price.

[slippifishi]

When the HD display is handling SD content, is there anyway we can tell it what form of autoscaling to use? From what I've seen from Terranigma and Stumblor videos of my own project, it looks like the display is doing the equivalent of the editors "Scale Scene > 2x", but messing around with some of my projects, there are some where that 2x version is not ideal. For example the LCARS screens in STTNG get a little garbled around the single pixel text, and granted it's only a few dots here or there and most people won't notice, but it definitely doesn't look as good as the "Scale Scene > Double" scaled version. Scaling all those LCARS scenes by hand, including all the textual variants would be - and I don't think I am exaggerating here - MILLIONS of hours of work!

 

It would be great - if there isn't already a way - to either be able to force the display to use one form of autoscaling (2x) or another (double/none) when it encounters non-HD content. If this could be set per scene as well that would be amazing and give a lot of options with regards implementation, but I can imagine that would be more difficult to add, so an overall display level setting could be a nice compromise. Is there something like this already available, or is that something that could be added?

[lucky1]

Set the scaler in the onscreen menu

[Rene368]

As it seems no one has feedback. So i'm making version 1.0 of the "HD Shield" available.

If there are things not clear or missing, please ask me/tell me.

I have included the Eagle files, the gerber files for manufacturing, the partlist, a .DXF for a laser cut panel (copied the board outline from the EVO HD PCB file), a picture of the .DXF file when opened and a picture of how I imagined the shield to be placed on the RGB panels.

Shield PCB dimensions: ~120x120cm.

 

-René

PIN2DMD_HD_Shield.zip

[Ashram56]

Thanks for this, I'm sure many would find this useful

 

On a sidenote, have you considered doing a "full frame" version of the Shield. Given that you need to arrange for a laser cut panel, why not instead going the full size of the PCB with the Shield (even if a lot of empty space) ? Cost wise it could potentially be lower than a PCB for the Shield, and a laser cut panel.

 

Just wondering out loud though

Edited November 8, 2021 by Ashram56

[Rene368]

17 hours ago, Ashram56 said:

Thanks for this, I'm sure many would find this useful

 

On a sidenote, have you considered doing a "full frame" version of the Shield. Given that you need to arrange for a laser cut panel, why not instead going the full size of the PCB with the Shield (even if a lot of empty space) ? Cost wise it could potentially be lower than a PCB for the Shield, and a laser cut panel.

 

Just wondering out loud though

 

Lucky1 designed a full PCB version called PIN2DMD EVO HD. When you want to manufacture this you need to order at least 5 PCB's. These can be quite expensive (at least including shipping to my location) for 5 pieces. You then also need to pay for the assembly of the PCB's (you can choose 1 for assembly, but then you have 4 empty PCB's). All in it could be quite expensive to make the larger EVO HD PCB's. When you would go for the shield, which also could be made at another PCB manufacturer instead of PCBWAY for a lower price. And have the panel laser cut in (for example) China, the final price could be lower.

 

Also you could easily make 1 of these LED panels for your pinball machine, instead of more. Not everyone needs 5 of these LED displays 🙂.

Lastly, you don't need to lasercut the panel. You are free to DIY a panel from another material like wood, to further reduce costs.

 

This is why I designed this PCB and .DXF for the community. Hope this clarifies things.

[Ashram56]

Hi @Rene368, yes I'm fully aware of the full PCB version, I have actually arranged for a full build recently.

 

However I believe there is a space for something in between: the full PCB version is for SMT assembly, including everything. But it's actually cheap to build just the PCB (ie no assembly nor components), a pack of 5 full size PCBs is 45 dollars at JLCPCB, so less than 10 dollars per PCB. I presume your Shield blank PCB would be about 2 or 3 dollars. 

 

So if you want something nice, you would need a lasercut panel, which adds about 10 dollars at least. Granted you could do it in wood to reduce cost.

 

So the idea is to expand your Shield to also act as a panel. It won't be more than 10 dollars per PCB.

 

Indeed you would end up with 4 blank PCBs, but I'm sure they would find their usage (friends, or internal inventory for future build)

 

Makes sense ?

 

Just a thought

[Rene368]

@Ashram56 So if I understand correctly. Your idea is to make a full size PCB, but with through hole components (so a bigger shield version)? For easier self soldering 1 piece. Is this correct?

[Ashram56]

Exactly

 

Idea is actually from a french contact, who is precisely working on the regular PIN2DMD version, credit where it's due (I don't have his VPU name, but I know he will publish to the main PIN2DMD thread for advice)

[Rene368]

I like the idea. Then you have the option to choose. But I don't have quite the time to adept the design at this moment. Maybe later.

[TeamPPAetios]

On 11/15/2021 at 10:29 AM, Ashram56 said:

Exactly

 

Idea is actually from a french contact, who is precisely working on the regular PIN2DMD version, credit where it's due (I don't have his VPU name, but I know he will publish to the main PIN2DMD thread for advice)

 

Hi Ashram56 ^^ 

 

I'm presuming you are talking about me (aetios).

 

I've just sent MP to lucky (before reading this post). I will publish the project publicly as soon as lucky approves it. 

 

@Rene368 : I will be honored to work on the HD version shield if you approve it too.

 

Best regards

[Rene368]

39 minutes ago, TeamPPAetios said:

@Rene368 : I will be honored to work on the HD version shield if you approve it too.

@TeamPPAetios You know what, I will also adept the design to a full size through hole version sometime this week or the next. 

Then we can make it public one after the other. We could even make a separate post were all the different through hole versions could be downloaded, if this would be easier and less scattered .

 

-René

[lucky1]

@Rene368 Currently the optional jumpers share a common GND pin which makes it difficult to set them both. Maybe you can change that in your layout.

[TeamPPAetios]

9 minutes ago, Rene368 said:

@TeamPPAetios You know what, I will also adept the design to a full size through hole version sometime this week or the next. 

Then we can make it public one after the other. We could even make a separate post were all the different through hole versions could be downloaded, if this would be easier and less scattered .

 

-René

 

Sounds great to me

 

Personnaly, i'm working on easyeda. If you have an account, I can add you to my project. I would be happy to discuss about choices I did for my project (and why i did it like that)

[Rene368]

17 minutes ago, lucky1 said:

@Rene368 Currently the optional jumpers share a common GND pin which makes it difficult to set them both. Maybe you can change that in your layout.

@lucky1 I'm looking at my design and have no clue what you mean🤨. When looking at sj2 and sj3 you can place 2 jumpers on them. Maybe you could clarify this for me?

 

16 minutes ago, TeamPPAetios said:

Personnaly, i'm working on easyeda. If you have an account, I can add you to my project. I would be happy to discuss about choices I did for my project (and why i did it like that

@TeamPPAetios I'm drawing in Eagle. But I could have a look at your design and you could clarify choises of yours, if you would want. But not in this thread ;).

[stumblor]

Some videos coming in from the HD kits I've been putting together - IJ an TZ. They looks great! Thanks @Ashram56 and Mike Parsons for providing the vids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing work @lucky1 these screens are a game changer imo. 

[Rene368]

@TeamPPAetios @Ashram56 and everybody else :).

I redesigned the board to a full through hole version.

If there is any, I would like to get some feedback on the current design.

I followed as much as possible the layout of the SMT version.

I narrowed (from 60mm to 50mm) the opening behind the panels to fit the nucleo. Should be enough for the ribbon cables and power cables to be placed.

 

-René