Content Provider CarnyPriest Posted May 1, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think the three year rule is just a carryover from the MAMEDev philosophy where they request not adding games more recent than 3 years old or which are still being sold new by the company that produced them. It is not the intent to compete in any way with games that are still being sold. The counter argument is that a virtual form of the table can never compete with the real thing. The community would never even be conceived as a threat. Well, it's a free internet. No one is compelled to wait for any site. Build it and host it yourself. Put those assumptions to the test, tickle the dragon's tail, be the lightening rod see what happens. Maybe nothing, maybe something. My opinion, yeah, three years seems arbitrary but it seems like a reasonable length of time given the usual product life cycle. Given all that we do have access to outside of three years there is no lack of work that can be done. I'm OK with the three year thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted May 1, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted May 1, 2014 You guys realize that there is no 3-year rule here, and the idea that there is has already been put to bed? Dazz already posted an official stand: (and it's in the BEST ANSWER section at the top of every page in this thread) no currently in-production games. That's not a definite amount of time. There's no grey area here. No in-production titles can be released. Sometimes production may last a year, 2 years, 3 years, depends how popular the game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider DeeGor Posted May 1, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted May 1, 2014 I don't believe Markmon was debating the 3 year rule. He was talking about the history of it. I agree with him in that everything should be fair game to re-create, but I'm not the one that makes the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Rascal Posted May 2, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted May 2, 2014 This scene is free advertising, how could they hate us? Test drive a virtual table, see if you like it, then go buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmon Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You guys realize that there is no 3-year rule here, and the idea that there is has already been put to bed? Dazz already posted an official stand: (and it's in the BEST ANSWER section at the top of every page in this thread) no currently in-production games. That's not a definite amount of time. There's no grey area here. No in-production titles can be released. Sometimes production may last a year, 2 years, 3 years, depends how popular the game is. Exactly. And I am just pointing out what an "in-production" game is. Medieval Madness is now an in-production game just as much as any other game (buy it here: http://www.planetarypinball.com/product/product-name-rec6/). So Medieval Madness is no longer allowed by the site rules. This won't stop at Medieval Madness either. Many other games are going to be produced and run again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted May 2, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted May 2, 2014 Exactly. And I am just pointing out what an "in-production" game is. Medieval Madness is now an in-production game just as much as any other game (buy it here: http://www.planetarypinball.com/product/product-name-rec6/). So Medieval Madness is no longer allowed by the site rules. This won't stop at Medieval Madness either. Many other games are going to be produced and run again. Yea I had wondered this myself, with ACDC coming back, and LOTR coming back a long time after the initial production run. The feeling I got was that ...it only mattered in regards to initial production. Not re-runs. There was a big discussion about this in regards to Avatar as well but I'm not sure I have any of that saved. I'm sure that's the answer Dazz has but I'd like an official word as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Dazz Posted May 3, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'm sure the guys at Planetary Pinball are fully aware that the games they are re-releasing have been emulated for years. They were aware of Visual Pinball/PinMAME long before they started their re-releases. These aren't "new" games and would not be really considered "in production" as far as we see it. There isn't anything they can really do about the emulation of these machines and I don't foresee them trying to do anything to stop emulation of them either. It's pretty obvious that if they are re-releasing a game; they aren't worried about existing emulation. On the other hand, Stern is releasing NEW games not re-releases, that's why I want to stick to not allowing releases of games that Stern has as their current games. Even if Stern starts to re-release games that haven't been produced in a while, the same rules as above would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted May 3, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'm sure the guys at Planetary Pinball are fully aware that the games they are re-releasing have been emulated for years. They were aware of Visual Pinball/PinMAME long before they started their re-releases. These aren't "new" games and would not be really considered "in production" as far as we see it. There isn't anything they can really do about the emulation of these machines and I don't foresee them trying to do anything to stop emulation of them either. It's pretty obvious that if they are re-releasing a game; they aren't worried about existing emulation. On the other hand, Stern is releasing NEW games not re-releases, that's why I want to stick to not allowing releases of games that Stern has as their current games. Even if Stern starts to re-release games that haven't been produced in a while, the same rules as above would apply. Is that 2nd best answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted June 12, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 12, 2014 Stern is throwing Iron Man back into production. Now what? https://www.facebook.com/sternpinball/posts/10152471041124244 Stern Pinball Opens its Vault to Reintroduce Iron Man Pinball World’s Leading Maker of Arcade-Quality Pinball Games Announces First Stern Vault Release With Iron Man Pro MELROSE PARK, IL – June 12, 2014 – Stern Pinball, Inc., the world's oldest and largest producer of arcade-quality pinball games, announced today it is opening the Stern Vault for re-release of Iron Man™ Pro. The Iron Man pinball machine features visuals, speech, music and sound effects from the Marvel blockbuster films Iron Man and Iron Man 2. After numerous requests from the pinball community, Stern is re-introducing this exceptional game. Originally released in 2010, the Iron Man Pro model continues to bring the battle between billionaire industrialist, Tony Stark/Iron Man, and his enemies to the fingertips and flippers of pinball players. With non-stop action, Iron Man Pro Vault Edition heightens the excitement, bringing back a classic game for the players of any age and skill level. Iron Man Pro Vault Edition features technological and manufacturing upgrades utilized by Stern in its current Pro models. Among the improvements is all LED playfield lighting. Iron Man is manufactured with Stern’s updated modern metal and wood back box with red t-molding and with a decaled cabinet and speaker housing. The Iron Monger, War Machine and Whiplash figures have been molded in one piece construction for improved strength. “Operators tell us Iron Man is a great earning pinball game, and enthusiasts tell us it’s a great playing game. We didn’t make enough,” said Gary Stern, founder, CEO and chairman of Stern Pinball. Look for future Stern Vault Editions. Pricing and Availability: Pro Version: $5,495 (MSRP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider DeeGor Posted June 12, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 12, 2014 I say keep it out there until Stern asks for it to be taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slydog43 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 maybe sale requests increased after people played a VP version (just joking, but I really don't believe emulation hurts stern) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted June 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted June 12, 2014 reproduced games dont apply to this, screw that shit...and tables been made in fp are ok cause they dont use rom..lmao get real.. whole topic a load of shit..they dont give a shit about our crappy pinball emulator...let it go man if any of the big companys cared there would be no emulation of anything you all just believe rumers that been started by certian people for control and or profit if it was a big deal VP wouldnt even exist END OF FUCKIN STORY... now lets get back to making and playing some kickass tables and let them fagot lawyers worry about that stupid shit.. gary says VP not real pinball and he dont care about it ... so fuck it ....sounds like a blessing to have fun to me.. Anybody else thats want to cry about it go start that topic over at VPF were it belongs....That topics dead here !!!! were movin forward not backwards here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted June 12, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 12, 2014 reproduced games dont apply to this, screw that shit...and tables been made in fp are ok cause they dont use rom..lmao get real.. whole topic a load of shit..they dont give a shit about our crappy pinball emulator...let it go man if any of the big companys cared there would be no emulation of anything you all just believe rumers that been started by certian people for control and or profit if it was a big deal VP wouldnt even exist END OF FUCKIN STORY... now lets get back to making and playing some kickass tables and let them fagot lawyers worry about that stupid shit.. gary says VP not real pinball and he dont care about it ... so fuck it ....sounds like a blessing to have fun to me.. Anybody else thats want to cry about it go start that topic over at VPF were it belongs....That topics dead here !!!! were movin forward not backwards here...... So does anyone else have a less-salty opinion than this? Beside the fact that those FP tables you talk about aren't hosted on VPU either, this is about VPU rules and the respect we pay to those rules, which in turn are in respect to Stern. There's no agreement, that's true, and they haven't gone after pinsimdb for hosting emulated tables (regardless of whether or not they use roms, I seriously doubt Stern gives a damn about roms, they likely only give a damn about the IP they license) - but that's now what the debate is. The rules of this site are (mostly) clear - no IN PRODUCTION GAMES. It's a rule we can live with, and it makes more sense than the crap over at VPF. I only brought up this old thread because we should define IN PRODUCTION, because as of today it is a grey area. Iron Man is in production. Yes, it's a re-run, and if we look at past re-runs, we ignore it. Consider LOTR, produced in 2003, re-ran in 2009. VPF had no problems hosting this table, so do we follow the same principle? Let's make it clear! Also, in agreement with WM except for being a salty bastard, Stern doesn't care. We do not hurt their sales at all. It's a topic that's been beaten to death, but there are a few pinball machines I would love to get my hands on now, after playing VP recreations. I've had my eyes on Sharkey's Shootout, Avengers, etc because of their VP recreations (or simply the time I spent recreating one...) It's a tough idea to pitch, but quite honestly, we do this for the love of pinball. It's not an accurate representation of the game by any means, but it's fun, it gets us talking pinball, it gets us out there dumping quarters into the real machines to compare. Not to say VP and FP are at the forefront of the current "pinball revolution", but it's definitely had an impact. If it's not VPU allowing these tables soon, it will be some other site. Again, all in respect to this site's rules. Anyways, this isn't a cry against the 3 year rule, simply one man's opinion. THAT being said, nothing is stopping us from making the tables ourselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted June 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted June 12, 2014 LOL ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^what he said ^^^^^^^^^^lets move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted June 12, 2014 Author Content Provider Share Posted June 12, 2014 maybe sale requests increased after people played a VP version (just joking, but I really don't believe emulation hurts stern) Actually wouldn't surprise me. How many members here own a real machine, and have VP? If VP was such a threat, why have a real machine too? Answer: Because it's fun, but still not the same thing. if it was a big deal VP wouldnt even exist END OF FUCKIN STORY... Agreed. If VP was a real threat, we wouldn't be here at all. I don't see any issue keeping Iron man out there, especially if it was out of production when it was made. But that's not my call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Rascal Posted June 13, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 13, 2014 Who the hell bumped this thread again? Lock this stupid thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfx4u Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Naw it's fun to talk about. It's pretty abvious pinball is doing very, very well. Stern rerealesing IM is proof of that. They're calling this the "Vault Editions" so I would think we will see more rereleases in the future. Maybe it's time to just let pinmame fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider oooPLAYER1ooo Posted June 13, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 13, 2014 it will prob be a toned down costco type machine like the horror of the costco dark knight table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted June 13, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 13, 2014 it will prob be a toned down costco type machine like the horror of the costco dark knight table not for 5495 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider 85vett Posted June 13, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 13, 2014 it will prob be a toned down costco type machine like the horror of the costco dark knight table Nope. Full blown IM. Will come stock with LED's as well. The major differences will be decals on the cab vs a screened cab, the double latch lock down bar, no sliders (just the pegs). they did also mention some code polishing as well. This is a great time for pinball! P.S. - Don't pay $5500 for it if you are buying one. I've got a good friend with one so I'm passing but they can be had for sub $5K shipped through some of the major distributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mameman Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It may just have to be my first new buy Www.xtremepinball.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogies2 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I also believe that the toys will be different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejub Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The only tangible loss to manufacturers would occur should PinMame become more popular than commercial software like Pinball Arcade, where licensing deals come into play. PinMame could be exploited by manufacturers as a viral marketing tool; team up with a reputable table author and provide them with hi-res artwork and whatever help is needed to make a high quality recreation that compliments the original tables game play, though that would likely anger those who've paid for proper licensing. As long as PinMame doesn't hurt commercial pinball software sales and the recreations are done well, it can only help the manufacturers. If Pinmame tables could be turned into a executable files without the need to setup/configure vp & pinmame it would make or break vpm as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider 85vett Posted June 16, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 16, 2014 PinMame could be exploited by manufacturers as a viral marketing tool; team up with a reputable table author and provide them with hi-res artwork and whatever help is needed to make a high quality recreation that compliments the original tables game play, though that would likely anger those who've paid for proper licensing. My dream job. I always thought it would be cool to be able to work with/for Stern building new tables as they design them. Allow them to play them before whitewooding them to get a feel for game play and as the game progresses it could be built to match the exact specs of the table. When the table is announced you have a VP table ready to go to let people "test" drive it. Pro's and cons to it as test driving may drive in some more sells ( I know of several people that wont buy until they can get a feel of the game) but on the other hand the differences between real and VP could turn off some potential buyers that can't understand the difference. Stern, if you are listening I'm by no means a great builder and have a lot to learn but I WANT to do this to help sell some machines and introduce a new market into the real pinball world (gamers). Let's work something out :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider oooPLAYER1ooo Posted June 16, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted June 16, 2014 the issue would be money, they license the theme for a pinball machine and every aspect needs the tick of approval from the ip holder. it would need to include in that license transfer to another medium adding higher costs. to give you an idea originally stern designed the ironman targets with the words iron and man, marval didnt allow the fact that the word ironman was split up and stern had to change. i know that dont refer to what we do but will give you an idea of the small things that most dont realize happens behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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