tamoore Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I don't really care what you guys do. It's your deal. I was just correcting blatantly incorrect information. Avatar was in production 9 months ago. There are no semantics in this regard. They were put on the schedule, new cabinets were made, games went down the assembly line, and they were produced. Party on. I hope you release all the SAM games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 21, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 21, 2013 Great to finally meet you at the expo Tam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger1980 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 OK, maybe I'm missing something, but what is the point in this discussion by now? FP is not VP and this site is not Pinsimdb or Gopinball. I never read anything about that matter there. @Dazz It's your site. Do what you want to do with it. If you want other rules then VPF... Make them but Stern will never give a clear answer regarding how much time must pass before a table can be recreated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider oooPLAYER1ooo Posted October 22, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 give people a chance they will recreate newest tables, if you think that statement is wrong then you guys are kidding yourselves. one thing i dont see in this thread is any level of respect for stern we are arguing about trying to get tables that may or may not be in production. i have no issue with people making the tables for personal use as i have myself but releasing them so soon from the company making them to me is like a big fuck you to stern. people want there tables so bad but are willing to tell them to go fuck themselves at the same time. why not create ones we know are way out of production like world poker tour, family guy, shrek, wheel of fortune, nba, spiderman, big buck hunter instead. this is the very reason why sam wasn't released from day 1 it was emulated as a general rule though i think if it is listed on sterns site as a current model its a no go as dazz has said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 22, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 I only put what I did up to hopefully clarify things, so we did show respect for Stern, whether we all agree or not. I was hoping it would be more definite than this. Personally, I mainly like the classics, so these new ones don't interest me above "having them all". If you spent 1 million$ (as George says each game costs to make), wouldn't you play it safe and not take any chances? I really doubt anything we do would hurt them, but if I spent 1 million$+ I wouldn't want my product potentially able to be distributed for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingamer Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Shrek! Shrek! Shrek! Shrek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider 85vett Posted October 22, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 I'd like to do Shrek. Working on a playfield atleast now per a request that I received. I'd also love to work on BBH. Does the SAM VPmame work for it or is it like Indy where it wont start correctly? I agree with playerone on releasing to new of a table even though I know I'm probably the offender here by RLing POTC and trying to RL Avatar (not realising it wasn't out of production long enough). I'm really only here to try and grow the community thus why I've wanted to share those tables. Releasing TRON for example would be wrong as it's so new and could realistically hinder sales and is a table that would merit a re-run due to it's demand. One thing I struggle with though is the thought of VP doing harm to Stern or any other builder. I see it more as free advertising. Their are a lot of people that play these tables to learn games and understand what they want to buy. I also know their are a lot of people that wont buy a machine if they can get it virtually but I just see VP helping more than hurting. It's like McDonalds. You put a cheeseburger in front of someone enough they start to want a cheeseburger. Take a title like X-men. A lot of people passed on the pin due to the initial code struggles. You get a real nice recreation in front of people they may actually grow to want one for real. Same could go for a pin like Avatar. Their is a reason it used to be called Avaturd. It didn't get much love at all. That is starting to change as people get to start playing it and making up their own mind vs just following along with someone post on a forum. Now their are more and more people wanting one. It's easy to say, "well go find one and play it". It's not that easy for most people as their aren't a lot out on route these days. To me this is where VP can step in and help. I'm probably crazy though anyways and a bit jaded as I'm a Stern fan. I like Williams and Bally but their is something about Stern pins that just fit my desires for a pin which makes me love them. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to refund as necessary :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 22, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 You get a real nice recreation in front of people they may actually grow to want one for real. I agree with this 100%. The only thing is if you do a bad version, it may work the opposite way. The way they see it is different than us. They see it as giving away their product for free. We see it as we just said, as free advertising. Thing is, they have no control over how we do our thing, that's what makes them nervous. If they actually had a hand in making tables (vp), these would be given away as a promotion. I'm not saying that will ever happen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider arngrim Posted October 22, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 Only ij4, csi, and LE special features are not working, even star trek is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger1980 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 @Player1 I totally agree. There are so many "old" SAM Tables out there. I think Dazz rule is perfect for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DStruct Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I also agree. There quite a few early SAM machines that need tackling. It's less controversial for the community at-large, and, let's face it, we'll catch up quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamoore Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Nice to meet you and Rukia as well, Itchy.... Great to finally meet you at the expo Tam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted October 22, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2013 I agree with this 100%. The only thing is if you do a bad version, it may work the opposite way. The way they see it is different than us. They see it as giving away their product for free. We see it as we just said, as free advertising. Thing is, they have no control over how we do our thing, that's what makes them nervous. If they actually had a hand in making tables (vp), these would be given away as a promotion. I'm not saying that will ever happen.... What the hell you talking about..were not making real tables and selling them..or making VP tables and selling them..we are making somthing that looks and kinda plays like the real thing FOR FUN AND FOR FREE !! Its called Virtual Pinball = NOT REAL ... For a guy that said you didnt really have time to talk to gary about it and he didnt say much about it...You sure are putting alot of words in the guys mouth ..In one post you said he didnt really care about VP..and now..that's what makes them nervous ? What are you the official Stern spokesman now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamoore Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I've always thought of the '3 year rule' as kind of a self policing policy. It's not set by anything offical, but rather as a desire to stay off the radar. As has been said: You will never, ever get Stern to offer a direct message on this other than 'no'. Their current strategy seems to be to pretend as if it doesn't exist, which is the best possible thing for you. The people who Stern obtains IP licenses from would not be impressed at all if Stern were to tell the community in any officiall way that NBA, for example, could be freely recreated 3 years after its release. It's madness to assume otherwise. If you want to keep your sandbox free and full of sand, I'd suggest you might want to adhere to this self policing policy, and stick to at a minimum the Dazz policy. Off the radar is the best place to be with this. This is not hyperbole: Essentially one to three people could shut the above ground version of this hobby down in an afternoon if they were motivated to. That's just my opinion, which I'm sure you won't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider 85vett Posted October 22, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 That's just my opinion, which I'm sure you won't like. I think it's a good one. Now, who has some resource images for BBH? I want to make this table. I've only played it once and never got anywhere with it. I want to build one to see if I like it as it's such an affordable pin these days :-) Gotta get it before it catches on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndz Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Until Stern requests otherwise just RELEASE THE KRAKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted October 22, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2013 Until Stern requests otherwise just RELEASE THE KRAKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 22, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 What the hell you talking about..were not making real tables and selling them..or making VP tables and selling them..we are making somthing that looks and kinda plays like the real thing FOR FUN AND FOR FREE !! Its called Virtual Pinball = NOT REAL ... For a guy that said you didnt really have time to talk to gary about it and he didnt say much about it...You sure are putting alot of words in the guys mouth ..In one post you said he didnt really care about VP..and now..that's what makes them nervous ? What are you the official Stern spokesman now??? I was able to talk to him for a little while, but when we got to that subject time ran short. But I've talked to George more than Gary, and I've run a business before, so I understand their mindset of what they may be thinking. (From hearing him speak). George is being groomed to take over (imo). They really don't care about vp as a whole. But anything that could potentially show their product in one light or another- I'd be concerned about too. Gary thinks of pinball as manufacturing a product, no different than a car or toy, or whatever else- he said this several times when he spoke at the podium. It was almost as if he didn't care about pinball, but was most concerned about the manufacturing aspect of it, as that's where his costs/profitablity lies. If you release the Kracken, it's likely they won't know about it, and it won't affect anything. I haven't said anything about any site. I only said that there was debate around the communities, and what was the real story. He didn't sound like he even remembered such an agreement. He just said "No new games". Didn't say how new, that's when people starting coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open6l Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I sometimes wonder if Gary doesn't just spew stuff off the top of his head without seriously thinking what the legal aspect is. I mean, if you release Avengers for example I would think you'd be more at risk from a lawsuit from Marvel since they are the actual owners of anything Marvel. Sounds like its more of a "this is what 'I' want" than anything else from Gary. This is just my opinion of course and sometimes I wish there was less paranoia and drama around these communities But of course I also DO understand the ramifications if such a thing like a lawsuit were to actually occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider arngrim Posted October 22, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 In my case, If a table has been made, it is only the vpt, for which somebody put a lof of effort, and for free. Then you need the rom, the db2s, the wheel, the bg video, the playfield video, the cabinet! The dof config, all the softwares hp b2s vpinball vpinmame dof... It is not like somebody is selling the product in one package, it is a joint effort without any profit and we are a minority to benefit from it And now i really would like to hit the jackpot so i can offer myself a metallica LE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 22, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 I sometimes wonder if Gary doesn't just spew stuff off the top of his head without seriously thinking what the legal aspect is. I mean, if you release Avengers for example I would think you'd be more at risk from a lawsuit from Marvel since they are the actual owners of anything Marvel. Sounds like its more of a "this is what 'I' want" than anything else from Gary. This is just my opinion of course and sometimes I wish there was less paranoia and drama around these communities But of course I also DO understand the ramifications if such a thing like a lawsuit were to actually occur. I got this impression too. Not to take anything away from him. It didn't seem he knew about such an agreement, just what boundaries he wanted to set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Rascal Posted October 22, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 I would have to agree with Tamoore. You're never going to get a direct answer from Gary and you should be thankful that you don't. He doesn't have the authority to condone what we do, as he is just licensing the rights to use the material for his tables. Avoiding or ignoring the question allows him deniability if something should come down about our use of the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Dazz Posted October 22, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2013 Ok, the VPUniverse official standing on this... No re-creations of currently in production games. For Stern this includes any games that is listed on their "Current Titles" list. We would love to start with the older games if resources are available. I hereby declare this discussion over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltar420 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I hereby declare this discussion over. Woooo! Let the building begin made this picture with my photoshop skills lol release the kraken!! (out of production only) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted October 22, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2013 Now thats funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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