Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 22, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 22, 2013 Ok, the VPUniverse official standing on this... No re-creations of currently in production games. For Stern this includes any games that is listed on their "Current Titles" list. We would love to start with the older games if resources are available. I hereby declare this discussion over. Works for me. I was only trying to inform, I wasn't saying do or don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted October 22, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2013 Works for me. I was only trying to inform, I wasn't saying do or don't. ahh comon itchy quit flip flopin either you got balls or you dont??? quit talkin shit man example = gary said I would get a pin if I can convince them not to put out stern tables or example = gary really is my brother and he give me a pin if i did say that or example = I know how to use photoshop or example = I'm just talkin shit and I'm not really gettin a pin ? or I like gettin feed with a spoon instead of a fork for real which one is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted October 23, 2013 Author Content Provider Share Posted October 23, 2013 I hope you guys don't think I was being a stick in the mud. I wasn't saying do it or don't, I was only showing what I found. Funny, I said that on page 2. I haven't changed. Gary isn't giving me anything. I was working on a designer's gig with George, but they took someone fresh out of school over me. Outside of that I have nothing going on with them. We all thought that this was Paul's made up shit before I found the PN thread showing something had been agreed to. Since I was going to see him at the expo anyway, I tried to get a clarification for you guys. I really don't care either way, I'm old school. The new shit's too complicated. I like more open space, Gary likes less parts to manufacture. That's all that's going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Rascal Posted October 23, 2013 Content Provider Share Posted October 23, 2013 I was CEO of my own operation too, My motto was: Get up early, stuff em, roll em, put a rubberband on em, put em in a pouch, make sure they landed on the porch. I'm pretty sure that is how the Stern company works too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaboat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sorry to bring up an old thread - but just wanted to make a comment regarding this topic. The VPinMame.dll is being updated with roms of tables which are not yet available to the VP Community. Its pretty clear to me that these tables (or some of) are finished and only available to a select few - which is disappointing to say the least, or am i missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loafmeister Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 That is one way to look at it, but you could also consider that these tables don't magically appear done over 1 days work; they require dev work and time and would be impossible to do without support in VPM during the development process. As per this sites rule, There is also a period of time required after the table is not in production before this site accepts them for posting, so a table could be ready, but it's too soon to be released. the fact we have seen fine releases such as iron man, tron, etc shows that they will come eventually, you just need to be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted March 20, 2014 Author Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 If they're available I don't know about it. Hell, I don't even know all the Sams. But my guess is they may be being worked on and the .dll has to be ready for them. I could be wrong.... (wouldn't be the first time) it also doesn't mean it'll be anytime soon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted March 20, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 There's multiple roms for the same table, that doesn't mean there are tables using those roms. They're in there so people CAN work on them, not because they exist already. The rom comes before the table, all the time. That's the way it has been and the way it always will be. We're lucky to have people who update the VPINMAME software regularly to include all the new roms released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaboat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I understand the development aspects as to why these are added to the libs etc and by no means am i ungreatful etc, heck, my cabinet isnt even built yet so its not an impatience issue either. The comment was made more as an observation, when you look over the update logs to see which roms have been added, then find snippets or images in random threads of which tables are being worked on.... I dunno guys, i just think this 3 year rule is kind of superflous, lets be honest, these virtual builds play nothing like the real pinball, so its not like they're in competition with the real tables / manufacturers. In any case, i'm respectful of the current status quo, simply making an observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Wildman Posted March 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 20, 2014 There is no 3 year rule here ..Never was..Best answer on top of page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Rascal Posted March 20, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 Who's Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loafmeister Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sam, I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider gtxjoe Posted March 20, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 I do not like that. Sam, I am Table author decides when and who gets to play the Stern tables. To be or not to be... an author. That is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astromark3000 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 There is no 3 year rule here ..Never was..Best answer on top of page What he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtlkat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I understand the development aspects as to why these are added to the libs etc and by no means am i ungreatful etc, heck, my cabinet isnt even built yet so its not an impatience issue either. The comment was made more as an observation, when you look over the update logs to see which roms have been added, then find snippets or images in random threads of which tables are being worked on.... I dunno guys, i just think this 3 year rule is kind of superflous, lets be honest, these virtual builds play nothing like the real pinball, so its not like they're in competition with the real tables / manufacturers. In any case, i'm respectful of the current status quo, simply making an observation These tables play a lot like the real pinball machines, they are using the same roms and the game play on these tables are great I think. Kinda in the wrong group to say they play nothing like the real games :-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider 85vett Posted March 20, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yes, some of these tables are being worked on. I can't speak for other builders but I know it takes me every bit of 4-500 hours to get one ready to play and the builders of these tables have jobs to so this is done in most of our spare time. That's not 100% but close enough for a first release. Redrawing or cleaning up images takes a long time, then you have the actual build process which is painful to say the least. For instance, just to make one post with a rubber on it is about 10 items that have to be adjusted to look right. Now look at something like a rubber that surrounds something (think of the flynn plastic on tron). You have to make the post (copy and paste from my parts table), then place it, adjust the color I want for it, then add the rubber (7 separate layers). Adjust the height and color for each layer. Than move it around to make it look right and play right. It's a pain staking process to get to look right. With that said, when a table gets close I share it with a few friends to test it for me as I don't want to release something that just plain sucks. As several of you know as you saw the video's some of my beta's got leaked so now I had to even cut that back making it even more challenging to finish a table right. For me specifically, I haven't been able to touch much building wise in a while now but I still comment to finish and release the tables I committed to. They wont be shared/released though until it is OK with the admins of the site in correlation to the rules put in place. My suggestion, nobody should ever get upset that a table may be out there that isn't shared. It's the builders right to share or not share what they have made and you have to have faith they will share it when they are ready to do so. If there is a table you want that isn't out there then I'd recommend everyone give making a table a try. there are a lot of people around that will help you when you get stuck but once you learn to build you will never have to rely on others to make things you want. That's quite honestly how I got started. I wanted a nice Corvette and Stern Playboy tables for my cab. None were out there so I started playing around with things. Built the corvette table, then Playboy and things took off. It's kind of cool to look back as with every table I can clearly see improvement in the builds. I also made some good friends along the way as I'd get stuck here or there and post my challenge, someone would help guide me through it and next thing you know we are co -building something or working on each others tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted March 20, 2014 Author Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 I can't speak for other builders but I know it takes me every bit of 4-500 hours to get one ready to play and the builders of these tables have jobs to so this is done in most of our spare time. As a fellow author (but not as skilled) he's not kidding. it takes a LOT to get one of these (Recreation or Original) to look and play good. It used to take me a good month to make one, working every day. I had guessed stuff was being worked on, but I have no idea what is being worked on. I'm content with what I have. I know nothing's being held back unless it's in testing and not done. 85vett: Love your work and appreciate all the effort. You know that's how JP told me he got started. He said he wanted to make a couple for himself and it snowballed....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaboat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yes, some of these tables are being worked on. I can't speak for other builders but I know it takes me every bit of 4-500 hours to get one ready to play and the builders of these tables have ........... Guys i didn't think that my post would spark such a trail of replies, some of which are a slight sidetrack. For the record, i am very appreciative of the efforts made in this community, the tables, the current port to DX9 etc are just fantastic pieces of work under way and i try contribute whereever i can. 85Vette, I am not the impatient or disrespectful type and i'm fully aware of the amount of time & work involved in the development of the end result. I dont dispute this. Sure, as a table builder you reserve the right to release or not, share or not etc, thats your perogative and thats not what is up for debate. I have a great respect for what you guys do, your latest releases are just beautiful and such a pleasure to play, eps Tron, so a personal thankyou for these. Much respect, To be honest, if it wasnt for your, and the broader communities efforts, i probably wouldnt be half way through a cabinet build at present. My initial post was more a challenge of the rules surrounding the release of Stern tables, not the authors, their efforts or the community at large and i certainly didn't set out to offent anyone. I guess there's no harm in challenging the status quo is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted March 20, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted March 20, 2014 Guys i didn't think that my post would spark such a trail of replies, some of which are a slight sidetrack. For the record, i am very appreciative of the efforts made in this community, the tables, the current port to DX9 etc are just fantastic pieces of work under way and i try contribute whereever i can. 85Vette, I am not the impatient or disrespectful type and i'm fully aware of the amount of time & work involved in the development of the end result. I dont dispute this. Sure, as a table builder you reserve the right to release or not, share or not etc, thats your perogative and thats not what is up for debate. I have a great respect for what you guys do, your latest releases are just beautiful and such a pleasure to play, eps Tron, so a personal thankyou for these. Much respect, To be honest, if it wasnt for your, and the broader communities efforts, i probably wouldnt be half way through a cabinet build at present. My initial post was more a challenge of the rules surrounding the release of Stern tables, not the authors, their efforts or the community at large and i certainly didn't set out to offent anyone. I guess there's no harm in challenging the status quo is there? I get it, but from what I have seen, tables floating around that aren't released yet are truly not ready. Not many table builders are investing a ton of time into something they can't even release yet. Some are, for sure, but many wait until they can actually release the table before fine-tuning everything for release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider 85vett Posted March 21, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted March 21, 2014 85Vette, I am not the impatient or disrespectful type and i'm fully aware of the amount of time & work involved in the development of the end result. I dont dispute this. Sure, as a table builder you reserve the right to release or not, share or not etc, thats your perogative and thats not what is up for debate. My initial post was more a challenge of the rules surrounding the release of Stern tables, not the authors, their efforts or the community at large and i certainly didn't set out to offent anyone. I guess there's no harm in challenging the status quo is there? No worries as it wasn't taken as disrespectful. My post intention was to try and help shed some light on where some of the builders come from and why you may see some of the things you do. Trust me, I know what it's like to push the envelope a bit ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmon Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I know this is an old topic. But I would like to weigh in. The whole 3 year thing was established back when stern was struggling to stay in business and was the only pinball company. This is no longer the case. There are now several pinball companies, 2 are shipping games today: stern and jersey jack pinball. Other companies with games in production include skitb with predator, highway pinball, Dutch pinball. There are more. In addition, planetary pinball supply (PPS) now owns rights to Williams and is bringing out another run of medieval madness due to ship any day. In short, medieval madness is now an "in production" game. By the rules of this site, medieval madness VP is now taboo. Silly. Further, PPS will be likely running attack from mars next or perhaps monster bash. Those will become taboo? Also, PPS is going to be releasing updated game roms for other games. I guess those would be considered "in production" as well? The point is that no one I know of considers a VP version of a game the same thing as owning the game. The recreations don't impact any sales. Someone that can afford a $5000-8000 new in box game is not going to consider just owning the video game version. Most of the customers of stern/JJP etc don't even consider virtual pinball to be pinball. As far as legality goes, short of reusing the table artwork in the recreation, there is nothing illegal about recreating table layouts. There is no licensing agreement with the game roms. And running them "as they are" in a virtualized environment does not violate any laws. Personally, I would say that any game should be fair to recreate. Of course, I don't run the site or make the rules. But policies need to change with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider Itchigo Posted May 1, 2014 Author Content Provider Share Posted May 1, 2014 I agree that we're not hurting Stern by our video games. But I have to stick with Dazz on this about "in production". I don't believe that we are hurting sales in ANY way but I think it's about respect towards Stern. Re- released games are another matter though. I don't believe they should be taboo because they've already been out there. (Excepting a "Special Edition"). Gary doesn't consider VP as real pinball anyway. He's told me that himself. We discussed making Stern Cabs featuring older Stern tables last year (for Operators) and he said that. Even if he's right about it not being real I disagreed with the viability of the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightpin Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 First post... uses it to argue against like, the only "rule" in this entire hobby. I really don't understand what is going through people's head most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider DeeGor Posted May 1, 2014 Content Provider Share Posted May 1, 2014 Markmon has been around for awhile, just new to here. IMO Virtual Pinball is the main reason for the resurgence of real pinball. Stern isn't going to kill this community because some video game recreations were made. He would be shooting himself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open6l Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 as mentioned - mark isn't some 1 post newbie around the pinball world. First post... uses it to argue against like, the only "rule" in this entire hobby. I really don't understand what is going through people's head most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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