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Beginning of a New Era


freezy

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This is the next and hopefully final episode of my previous post about the current status of DMD colorizations. I'll try to make it shorter this time. ;)

 

What happened since then?

 

First, let's quickly recap how colorizations with dmdext work.

 

01-current.thumb.png.509e6f776bb84a8f8abf6d548474bf05.png

 

On the left, we've got VPM emitting frames and sending them to dmdext's DmdDevice.dll. This DLL reads the PAL/VNI files, does the coloring and outputs the colored frame data to the output devices of your choice (monitor, real DMDs, or to another computer via network streaming).

 

The beauty of this design is that whenever support for a new hardware device gets added to dmdext, colorization just works, because it's receiving data through the same interfaces as the other devices.

 

Now, as we all know, PAL/VNI colorizations were removed from this site, in favor of a new, proprietary, DRMed format called PAC. In my last post, I expressed strong disagreement, because the chosen way of providing monitor support for PAC was to create a hostile fork of dmdext and violate the GPL by distributing it together with the proprietary colorizer.

 

My proposition how to solve these issues at the time was this:

 

02-compromise.thumb.png.9686e7ae307e661160efcfc103a2416c.png

 

Although I didn't like the idea of loading proprietary code into dmdext, I nevertheless proposed a design that would allow externalizing the coloring to a third party library, under the condition that it uses proper frame formats and that this plugin would be shipped separately, in order to not violate the GPL. Here's my quote from that post, back in May 2022:

 

On 5/20/2022 at 9:31 PM, freezy said:

A compromise: we create an API that does coloring only (an API is like a contract of how different pieces of software communicate with each other). The API supports all the frame formats used today (not just RGB24). Dmdext implements that API. Lucky1 converts his code to match the API as well. Dmdext loads any library that implements the API at runtime, if available. But both programs need to be shipped separately, in order to respect the GPL.

 

What came next was radio silence. I put my focus back on VPE, when in November 2022, I received this pull request. I was actually very happy to see that somehow I came through to @lucky1 and that he agreed to implement the compromise I've proposed. The problem was just that instead of my proposition, I got this:

 

03-fork.thumb.png.4e69b032c29f01bd9dc8cfed6a0de12f.png

 

RGB24. Of course. RGB24 works fine for the virtual DMD on LCD monitors, but for hardware devices that internally use a serial interface, it's laggy (which sucks specially during video modes). You can read more about it here. Lucky1 knows that, and to fix this problem for PIN2DMD, he added a driver to the plugin that by-passes dmdext and uses the optimal (non-RGB24) frame format.

 

Asked whether it was possible to use a proper frame format instead of RGB24 for dmdext, the answer was this:

 

Quote

I would slap the pin2dmd coloring authors in the face if I would do that. There is already enough beef going on. (See above)

 

Sigh. Don't you love your dramas.

 

So I invited all the coloring authors to a private club here at VPU and explained the situation. There was mostly stunning silence from the authors, but from the few comments I've received, the majority was okay with their colorizations being available on all devices. There was just... one guy who didn't like it (a guy who runs a business selling PIN2DMDs).

 

In the following days, I got contacted by a few authors privately, and after some lengthy discussions, one thing became clear to me: Not all coloring authors are selling their work to real-pin owners, but for many who do, it's become a non-negligible business. Which brings me to the next point:

 

Why PAC anyway?

 

See, there were two official reasons for PAC:

  1. Remove original frame data to avoid IP infringement
  2. "Protect" the authors.

Number one could have been addressed without DRM, in open source. Which leaves just one reason for PAC's existence: Ensure that the authors can continue selling their colorizations to real-pin owners.

 

Which is fine, do whatever you want with your content. I'm not judging. But it becomes problematic when other projects like dmdext get impacted, and suddenly the community suffers because there is a hostile fork, thus confusion, plus laggy DMDs, and to make things worse, licenses get violated.

 

I hope that you see the hypocrisy here. Illegally redistributing colorizations is bad (thus, PAC), but illegally redistributing dmdext seems to be okay.

 

My Feelings

 

I kinda feel betrayed by PAC. When we decided to port the coloring code into dmdext, the deal was to open source it so LCD users would benefit from the colorizations, enlarging the ecosystem and thus finding new coloring authors.

 

But open sourcing also meant keeping it open for current and future devices. I would never have agreed to do all that work if it meant that as soon as traction becomes visible, everything would go back to proprietary closed source. And yet, that's exactly what happened.

 

Distributing dmdext for rendering PAC on the monitor is not cool. It violates the GPL. It's hypocritical.

 

So, my message to Lucky1 is: Please, write your own LCD renderer and create your own proprietary ecosystem where creators can monetize their colorizations. Leave my project in peace. Do what you preach to the community: Respect the wish of the author, even if the author is me, who provided the code your system is running with.

 

To the coloring authors: Have a look at Serum. It's free and open source, and it works with all devices. It has its own editor, and it's actively maintained. There's a friendly community on Discord. And it might even run on real pins some day (actually, it's WIP already).

 

My message to the community: Stop using PAC. Most colorizations will eventually be ported or recreated with Serum. It's going to be a healthier ecosystem, like the one we already know and love, when sharing tables. Money tends to ruin many things. This is a prime example.

 

Finally, I want to apologize for the rather negative tone of these posts. Believe me when I say that I don't enjoy writing them. I would rather dive back into VPE development and keep this project on maintenance only, but I don't want it to get hijacked either.

 

I really hope that the coloring community moves to a more open technology, even if it means less financial benefits. That's where also the rest of the vpin community is, by the way. Nobody here makes a dime, we do it because we're enjoying it and also because we're getting awesome feedback. Maybe that could be your main motivation, too. It's a hobby, after all.

 

Peace out,

 

    -freezy.

 

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Yeah, when the hostile fork was released - especially since it (A) made obsolete all existing tutorials for dealing with colorizations and (B) was more difficult to support - I disabled pretty much all the VNI/PAL colorizations on my cabinet. Since I stream, I didn't want to be seen supporting  the forking and the way it basically broke everything that was already in place, even if I was still using the older format files. I have only a few colorizations present right now, and they're all SAM color ROM patches.

 

I do plan on running SERUM/CROM here in the not too distant future, and I may see about adding a logo call to my Twitch layout that basically says, "Colorizations via SERUM", possibly even with an automated chat link post for the download for specific files like I do with tables now. BTW, my understanding is that SERUM exists largely because of Lucky1 not supporting ZeDMD in the new setup.

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Thanks for all your hard work freezy.  Glad you summed up what happened as I was confused.  It is kinda scary messing with a perfectly working Pincab and make changes that could break things.  I have gone through and removed all of my PAC colored files.  I really hope the color DMD guys crank out the new Serum type files.  Is it my imagination that your DMDDevice.dll starts up the color dmd faster than it was with PAC supported DMDDevice.dll?  i can't really go back and check now.  Thanks again!

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Thanks freezy, great description of how things play together and the issues with the pac format.

 

Was hoping that a plugin solution could be found before i tried any of the newer pac colourisations but i guess that isn't going to happen now. I'll stick to my old pal/vni and use serum for any new files.  It's the newbs to hobby i feel sorry for, none of this will make any sense to them and they won't be able to grab any of the old format files anywhere (legitimately) either. 

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Well, then this might be the (stupidest imaginable) way...

People will have the choice of supporting serum with 1 or 2 finished projects for now, or pac support with probably 75% of ALL already available corlorizations?

 

PLEASE, ALL PEOPLE BE AWARE THAT YOU LOSE SUPPORT FOR THE COLORIZATIONS THAT YOU ALREADY H_A_V_E, in expectation what MIGHT come one day, or not.

 

Your own words:

"I kinda feel betrayed by PAC. When we decided to port the coloring code into dmdext, the deal was to open source it so LCD users would benefit from the colorizations, enlarging the ecosystem and thus finding new coloring authors."

Is pac still open for lcd? SURE!


Don't get me wrong, i really appreciate all the stuff you do for the community, but this is simply kindergarden bs.

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8 minutes ago, Rappelbox said:

Well, then this might be the (stupidest imaginable) way...

People will have the choice of supporting serum with 1 or 2 finished projects for now, or pac support with probably 75% of ALL already available corlorizations?

 

PLEASE, ALL PEOPLE BE AWARE THAT YOU LOSE SUPPORT FOR THE COLORIZATIONS THAT YOU ALREADY H_A_V_E, in expectation what MIGHT come one day, or not.

 

Your own words:

"I kinda feel betrayed by PAC. When we decided to port the coloring code into dmdext, the deal was to open source it so LCD users would benefit from the colorizations, enlarging the ecosystem and thus finding new coloring authors."

Is pac still open for lcd? SURE!


Don't get me wrong, i really appreciate all the stuff you do for the community, but this is simply kindergarden bs.

I think Freezy explained the situation pretty well.  He's not required to give support for anyone else's project; especially not a closed format that broke his GPL and created a hostile fork.

 

I never made the switch to PAC and missed out on, what, 3 new projects?  All the VNI/PAL and SAM colorizations still work just fine, and cROM looks like it'll work even better.

 

...Besides, you can still use PAC with DMDext 2.0 if you really want:

 

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Hmm tough one to swallow. Never knew about the technical stuff behind the scenes. But I got 39 tables with pac files and I have all 3 formats running without problems so losing out on that would definitly suck. My humble opinion is that I believe 90% of the users here are mere players who just want to have the best experience possible. So if you want to make this work then you need to have an alternative in place. Losing 1 or 2 color dmd's can be acceptable but 39 is too much for me personally. So hopefully you don't enforce this update too much until we as players don't have to lose out too much

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14 minutes ago, DonRobby said:

Hmm tough one to swallow. Never knew about the technical stuff behind the scenes. But I got 39 tables with pac files and I have all 3 formats running without problems so losing out on that would definitly suck. My humble opinion is that I believe 90% of the users here are mere players who just want to have the best experience possible. So if you want to make this work then you need to have an alternative in place. Losing 1 or 2 color dmd's can be acceptable but 39 is too much for me personally. So hopefully you don't enforce this update too much until we as players don't have to lose out too much

Again - 2.0 isn't blocking anyone from using PAC, it just doesn't support it out of the box.  In fact DMDext never did - you needed to get dll's from the hostile fork...and you still can.

 

Freezy is asking users to make a moral choice, not forcing anything on anyone.

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My moral choice would be to support the official version over the other one. But I am just giving an honest opinion and some facts from the player's perspective. I got 127 folders in the altcolor folder. 34 have a pal/vni combo, 2 have serum and 39 have pac. The remaining ones are just basic pal. I have seen a example wich offers both the pal/vni and pac format so it seems the developers can make the choice for themselves. The only downside I knew until now was that the old format was about 10x larger but I was not aware about the issues that are shown here with the diagram and also not about the dispute behind the scenes wich actually makes me sad when I read that story. The work Freezy puts into this and the VPE project just deserves respect. But those pac files contain some of the best games like TOTAN for example and it just looks horrible without it once you got used to it. So I will definitly keep my eyes open to see how things go from here. And once I feel the time to upgrade once more has come I will do it

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9 hours ago, Rappelbox said:

 but this is simply kindergarden bs.


No it isn't. It is not a secret that I prefer open source solutions and totally agree that it enables innovations.

I have a lot of respect for Lucky1 and what he created with PIN2DMD. I used PIN2DMD in several projects and will keep supporting it in PPUC/libpiname in parallel with ZeDMD. But I always wished that I can look "into" it to search for bugs and to enhance its possibilities by myself.
That's what I can can do now with ZeDMD and Serum.
 

 

9 hours ago, Rappelbox said:

PLEASE, ALL PEOPLE BE AWARE THAT YOU LOSE SUPPORT FOR THE COLORIZATIONS THAT YOU ALREADY H_A_V_E, in expectation what MIGHT come one day, or not.


That's exactly the problem. What happens if Lucky1 stops working on PIN2DMD one day, what if he stops providing license keys, what if he doesn't find the time to maintain his fork of dmdext ... regardless what the reason would be.
Then you end in the same trap like with other DRM protected content when the system to unlock your content disappears, especially if you depend on one specific person.  That's a massive bus factor ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor ).

In case freezy or zedrummer stop working on DMDext or Serum, the community can take over. Like mjr took over the reponsibility for DOF when siwsslizard stopped working on it.
Or the others who contributed to and improved VPX, PinMAME, etc. Nobody would be able to enjoy Virtual Pinball and the eco-system as it is today if one if these programs would have been closed source. Or if the table scripts, sound files, ... were DRM protected.


So anyone has the freedom of choice what he wants to use. But it isn't "kindergarden".
 

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I am a pin2dmd user, until recently happy, but I think that if the progress of this community depends on the whim and interests of a person, if I give you permission or take it away, it is the wrong way, this was tried in a friendly way but was denied, in addition to starting to do maneuvers such as changing formats, (the only interest that there may be for this is not difficult to know) I think that the best thing that can happen to us is to have an open format, even losing colorations or having to withdraw my pin2dmd from my pinball.  I will gladly do it, the best is yet to come

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1 hour ago, mk47 said:

It is not a secret that I prefer open source solutions and totally agree that it enables innovations.

 

Yeah, suddenly you've got three talented developers working on a system instead of a one man show. That's pretty awesome, and I would not trade that against any kind of monetization. At least not for a hobby that I enjoy. :)

 

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47 minutes ago, mk47 said:


No it isn't. It is not a secret that I prefer open source solutions and totally agree that it enables innovations.

I have a lot of respect for Lucky1 and what he created with PIN2DMD. I used PIN2DMD in several projects and will keep supporting it in PPUC/libpiname in parallel with ZeDMD. But I always wished that I can look "into" it to search for bugs and to enhance its possibilities by myself.
That's what I can can do now with ZeDMD and Serum.
 

 


That's exactly the problem. What happens if Lucky1 stops working on PIN2DMD one day, what if he stops providing license keys, what if he doesn't find the time to maintain his fork of dmdext ... regardless what the reason would be.
Then you end in the same trap like with other DRM protected content when the system to unlock your content disappears, especially if you depend on one specific person.  That's a massive bus factor ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor ).

In case freezy or zedrummer stop working on DMDext or Serum, the community can take over. Like mjr took over the reponsibility for DOF when siwsslizard stopped working on it.
Or the others who contributed to and improved VPX, PinMAME, etc. Nobody would be able to enjoy Virtual Pinball and the eco-system as it is today if one if these programs would have been closed source. Or if the table scripts, sound files, ... were DRM protected.


So anyone has the freedom of choice what he wants to use. But it isn't "kindergarden".
 

“What if” is only speculation, not fact. ;)

Markus, you’re a good guy and I often follow the stuff you create or you contribute to. 
I always prefer friendly and objective discussions but at this point it’s more of a good guy - bad guy “game” and doesn’t serve anyone. 
 

the already available content doesn’t disappear, it just won’t get any updates, and even that is only hypothetic. 

License keys and lack of generating new ones don’t matter for lcd vpin users and real devices that are already built. 
 

sure, an open format is the best a community can get but it’s not always a bad thing to have a closed format. See, when pin2dmd started it WAS open source. People misused it and so it got closed down. But since then it still evolved and got new features. I’m sure most of you know the story. There are various example of good but closed source software and hardware. 
 

…and don’t anyone of you think that lucky1 has a backup plan?! That would be ridiculously dumb!

 

… and as we write another colorization for pin2dmd was just released: transformers 😊

 

see, the formats can happily coexist if people would just be willing to accept it.

 

We can be arguing back and forth endlessly, it won’t solve the underlying issue, at least for now. 

 

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Based on the TRON results I’m betting that most authors will give SERUM a try. I can’t wait to download the editor and explore it. 
 

Could be that SERUM becomes the go to method and this kind of works itself out via natural evolution. 
 

I wish PAC had been allowed to stand on its own merits and the existing VNI/PAL files weren’t pulled down. That kind of put the newbies in a tough spot. 
 

I respect Lucky1 and Freezy way too much so I’ve gone through the spinning head stage and am now on the chill out stage personally. 
 

I’m stoked about more SERUM colorizations at the moment and I’d like to build one of his DMD’s for the learning experience. I built three of Lucky1’s and it was a blast.  While I’m complimenting I’d also like to say Freezy has been a lifesaver to my cab experience also. 

Edited by bushav
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Again what Freezy spreads here as the full truth simply isn´t. With my current plugin solution ALL DEVICES supported from version 1.10.2  work perfectly fine and in EXACTLY THE SAME way with EXACTLY THE SAME data format as before. Even more SERUM uses RGB24 to display its colorizations on most of the devices. Only ZeDMD takes advantage of an optimized data structure with Serum. The only reason why Freezy continues his drama series of "End of an Era" to "RGB24 or not RGB24" to now "Beginning of a new Era" is that I don´t give out the colorized data in data format that is optimized for ZeDMD to overcome its bad RGB24 implemetation and , what is more important , sending out the data in COLORED6 would easily allow the conversion from pin2dmd colorizations to serum colorizations WITHOUT the approval of the colorization authors. He is good in using words like hostile fork, hypocrises and illegal distribution to enforce his interests but everybody with some programming knowledge can verify what I write in the public source code.

 

If I would continue the kindergarden Freezy starts here I could also revoke the license I granted to him to use the pin2dmd colorization code and to read the vni/pal data structure which would be fully compliant to GPLV2 under which fDMDExt is licensed. Revoking a given license is forbidden only from GPLV3 on. 

But I´m pretty sure he would refuse that because it would limit the use of his dmdext build even more. I may remember you that dmdext although you have started it, no longer is YOUR project alone due to the fact that many, including me, have contributed to it in the past. 

 

So freezy why don´t you just let the community decide which way to go about the colorization formats instead of trying to force them to go your way ?

I also corrected some of the bugs in my pull request which still exist in your current version. What do you do with them ?  Pull them into your code or keep the bugs to not have any of my code in your dmdext code ? 

 

P.S  the correct graphics from above should look like this. The current VNI/PAL code would not work with future exports in VNI/PAL format anyway because of new colorization modes used and was therefore removed. Of course we can easily add ZeDMD support in RGB24 if freezy is o.k. with it.

 

 

 

02-compromise Kopie.png

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1 hour ago, lucky1 said:

With my current plugin solution ALL DEVICES supported from version 1.10.2  work perfectly fine and in EXACTLY THE SAME way with EXACTLY THE SAME data format as before.

That's only true for 64-color content, and only for PinDMD3, which doesn't support 64 colors yet, and thus uses RGB24.

 

1 hour ago, lucky1 said:

Even more SERUM uses RGB24 to display its colorizations on most of the devices. Only ZeDMD takes advantage of an optimized data structure.

That's simply not true. The coloring code doesn't even know to which device it outputs.

 

1 hour ago, lucky1 said:

I could also revoke the license I granted to him to use the pin2dmd colorization code

You didn't grant anything to me. You submitted code modifications to my repo, and by doing that, you accepted the license of the code you have modified (willingly or unwillingly).

 

1 hour ago, lucky1 said:

I may remember you that dmdext although you have started it, no longer is YOUR project alone due to the fact that many, including me, have contributed to it in the past.

Just because you contributed to the project doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want with it. The only thing you own is the copyright of the code that you have written, and that code you could indeed re-license and use however you want. But you didn't write the LCD renderer code, did you. Which is the reason why you're using dmdext in the first place.

 

1 hour ago, lucky1 said:

I also corrected some of the bugs in my pull request which still exist in your current version. What do you do with them ?  Pull them into your code or keep the bugs to not have any of my code in your dmdext code ? 

That's great, I'll have a look on occasion. But I'm not sure what your angle here is. Now you've fixed a bug, I'm not allowed fixing it, too? Is this about the kindergarden you guys keep bringing up? ;)

 

But seriously, do your own thing. Write your own code and don't steal it from my repo. It's a simple request.

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Wow! Seems somewhat cruel to lockout ZeDMD as an alternative DMD. Is it possible to make the original PAL/vni DMD alt colour files available for uses of ZeDMD and Virtual DMD using Freezy? Then DMD uses can have a choice of Pin2DMD or ZeDMD. 

Is there something that I am missing besides missing out on a smarter system for my Pin2DMD. 

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7 hours ago, freezy said:

you accepted the license of the code you have modified (willingly or unwillingly).

 I´m talking about the information shared with you to add pin2dmd colorization to dmdext. 

Without my work together with DJRobX in the first step and later mista-funky for 64 colors you would not even have a working colorization code in dmdext.

No 64 colors, No colorized 16 colors, no COLORED6 format, no HD scaling etc,etc

For the changes / fixes made from me to the other code according to GPLV2 I could also revoke that license, which would mean you would have to remove

all of my code for future builds which would make it extremely hard to get it running again.

 

8 hours ago, freezy said:

But you didn't write the LCD renderer code, did you. Which is the reason why you're using dmdext in the first place.

 

 

Guess what, I personally use a pin2dmd.  I´m supporting DmdExt to make the colorizations available to the community.

 

7 hours ago, freezy said:

That's great, I'll have a look on occasion. But I'm not sure what your angle here is. Now you've fixed a bug, I'm not allowed fixing it, too?

No, I just mentioned it that I was sure that you accept work from me what pleases your personal taste and ignore which does not without having an eye on what the community wants.  I think they simply want a version that perfectly works with all available colorizations.

 

1 hour ago, RusstyT said:

Is it possible to make the original PAL/vni DMD alt colour files available for uses of ZeDMD and Virtual DMD using Freezy?

Yes, the editor still supports the export of VNI/PAL. It is up to the author which format to export to.

The problem is that I have been contacted by some authors, that the author of ZeDMD was illegally sharing VNI/PAL colorization files without the approval of the authors and only took them down under pressure from the VPU admins. Now they don´t want to see their colorizations running on ZeDMD and are afraid of illegal conversion of their files to Serum. It was already admitted that they are working on a conversion program in another thread here on VPU.

 

P.S. Funny side fact. Freezy did you realize that you always start your drama on full moon !

 

Please understand that this is my last post for now because I´m currently on vacation.

I have better things to do 🙂

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Hehe, the full moon thing is hilarious. I actually missed it by 4 days last time, but still. :)

 

Look, you cannot "revoke" code because it's based on "information you shared with me". In our case, you cannot even revoke code that you've written yourself, due to the license you've submitted it under. Imagine how the open source world would collapse if every contributor to any project could revoke their code at any time. It's just... an absurd argument.

 

Have a good holiday nevertheless!

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3 hours ago, lucky1 said:

 Without my work together with DJRobX in the first step and later mista-funky for 64 colors you would not even have a working colorization code in dmdext.

No 64 colors, No colorized 16 colors, no COLORED6 format, no HD scaling etc,etc

For the changes / fixes made from me to the other code according to GPLV2 I could also revoke that license, which would mean you would have to remove

all of my code for future builds which would make it extremely hard to get it running again.

As I said many times, I don't mean war, so I prefered not to post...

But come on @lucky1, do you have such a high opinion of yourself and, worst, such a poor opinion of others? OK, you had the idea, but do you really think that what you did, noone else could have done it?

 

3 hours ago, lucky1 said:

The problem is that I have been contacted by some authors, that the author of ZeDMD was illegally sharing VNI/PAL colorization files without the approval of the authors and only took them down under pressure from the VPU admins. Now they don´t want to see their colorizations running on ZeDMD and are afraid of illegal conversion of their files to Serum. It was already admitted that they are working on a conversion program in another thread here on VPU.

I already apologized for that, but I'll never change what I have done. What surprises me is that YOU are the one who always talk about that... I could say that all the authors I talked with (except 1) told me that they don't mind, but once again, that's just my word.

Anyway, I'm really surprised, in all the messages you send about me, you never say my nickname, it's always "the author of ZeDMD/Serum"... I grew up in a family with psyhologists all around from my mother to all her friends, and I naturally learnt all these little things in the language: are you really afraid of me and more certainly of my development? @lucky1, I'm not important, really, feel comfortable, you won't be ousted from your throne in a short term! My ZeDMD has not the worldwide influence Pin2DMD has, my Serum colorization represents 3 roms for now, when there are countless PAC colorizations! You are not threatened.

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Huh. So when still being called out for violating a license, the response is to threaten to pull their contributions to the same open source project that they violated the license on in an attempt to hobble it?

 

Making me further glad that I didn't go anywhere near the PAC train.

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1 hour ago, zedrummer said:

do you really think that what you did, noone else could have done it?

 

No of course not, but definitely not as fast as you did it. Basically add a serial driver to dmdext plus 100 lines of arduino code for the display - done is  the 100% french development. 

 

1 hour ago, zedrummer said:

I'm really surprised, in all the messages you send about me, you never say my nickname, it's always "the author of ZeDMD/Serum"

 

The reason for is is simple, not everybody knows the connection between Zedrummer and ZeDMD/Serum and that way it makes it clearer .

 

1 hour ago, zedrummer said:

are you really afraid of me

 

Hahaha, if you would personally know me, I guess you would not say that. Guess that is the drawback of growing up in a family of psychologists, you overinterpret things while they are sometimes just simple.😜 

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