Why are we messing with all Losermans tables? Because people care

[njk70]

I already have them and named them all accordingly. Just looking for consistent naming convention, but maybe its just me as I am a bit of a digital pack rat.

[TerryRed]

For SSF... to be honest I'm not sure if there is a "guide" here on VPU or elsewhere for adding it to a table. Maybe @DJRobX or @Thalamus knows where the most up to date one might be?

 

I always used one of the VPX table's (with good SSF) for info on that, as some of the newer tables that use SSF include all the info you need in the table script (describing all the commands you need,etc). 

 

VPX only does "some" portion of SSF itself. We need to use different DOF commands to combine with SSF for flipper / slings / bumpers,etc. For non DOF items for SSF there is a similar command that is used. (PlaysoundAt, etc).

 

Try looking at something like BM66 to get an idea.

 

 

[leeoneil]

Ok, thank's for all the advice, i'll check the table as soon as possible.
Meanwhile, Thalamus propose me to check my next table, adding SSF, moving the famous 15th wall etc... and giving me back some comments to understand everything.

 

Thank's for your help !

 

 

[leeoneil]

Thank's Thalamus, thank's many many times !
I think i understand almost everything and i will be able to explain it on the french forum for foxyt and the others.

We will move the "15th wall", we will add or update the SSF, we will darken the light...

 

But i have a question here.

I wanted to know your opinion on the rolling sound.

On a pincab, the ball rolling sound by default on any Loserman tables have lot's of treble and it's very loud.

I know we are supposed to hear the ball rolling on EM tables, but in comparison with other tables it's very "clear", and don't have any bass.

I did the comparison with the JPSalas rolling sound for example, and testing the loserman table with it "look" (for me) much better.

 

What's your opinion on that ?

I don't want to change the sound and displease everyone here.

Is there a "perfect" rolling sound for EM tables ?

 

@ARMYAVIATION @TerryRed any idea on the subject ?

[JamieP]

Hi all. I don’t understand DOF and thanks to @leeoneil for adding to my last couple of tables. However on wall15 I think I have moved it on almost all the loserman tables and I always replace the rolling routines with a more recent JPsalas version that I modified with my own more subtle ball shadow code. The original version I find looks like the light is sat on the playfield glass, these are however for personal taste not functional changes so have never thought of uploading 

[ARMYAVIATION]

Can you post the ball rolling routine and ball shadow portion of the script so we can try it please

[ARMYAVIATION]

@leeoneil I personally take the louder ball rolling sound, I know it’s used on Jaws, and use that, then take the volume in the script from 2000 to 3200 to make it quieter.  That’s what I like for my setup but I have never been a fan of it.  I wish we could record a better version

[bord]

On 2/13/2022 at 4:17 PM, ARMYAVIATION said:

 

@bord  is there something we can put together to give these guys to make a difference on the tables since they are doing the dof and releasing all these.  I know i talked with Jeff about adding the louder ball rolling sounds and showed him how to make primitive holes in the PF.  Thats a bit far but if there was say, a better lighting setting, ervironment emission image, ball image, stuff like that that could be applied to all the updates it might make it worth it.  I know personally all his tables are too bright for me and i take them about 80% to the left on the day night slider.  I would trust and settings you would recommend

 

 

@ARMYAVIATION This is a good question. I don't know that there is a simple answer. Probably the best bang for your buck would be to pull a table into Blender, set up GI lights and render a shadow/lighting overlay that would give the lights some shape. There are a few additional things to overcome since a lot of Jeff's games don't have meshes for plastics and aprons. Once you got good at it the investment would be no more than 1/2 hour per table but multiply that times the number of tables...

 

This is still being developed but when complete it will be a very powerful option while we wait for VPE.

https://github.com/vbousquet/vpx_lightmapper

[bord]

@ARMYAVIATION here is an actual example for you to consider. 20-30 minutes gives you shaped GI on a Loserman game.

 

 

[bord]

Here it is with another 10 minutes of tweaking - ball shadow depth bias corrected, GI circuit removed, minor physics changes. Let me know what you think. All in all a 30 minute mod.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Rsu66c36Fs9PwAgkjxrYrQ7A4AApyAFi&authuser=adrian.bordeleau%40gmail.com&usp=drive_fs

 

[ARMYAVIATION]

@bord I have used your tutorial before and man that really does make it look nice.  Blender is such a perishable skill for me.  I went back the other day after not using it for months and i need to do alot of refresher training.  Wish i had your skills with this.  

as far as doing all his tables, man thats gonna be a project.  I was more referring to settings in vpx, environmental images, ball images, sounds.... those are pretty easy that everyone should be able to add and can be made a standard when uploading these if we agree on something.

[Thalamus]

Thanks again @bord for your input on how this can be improved; not spending too much time. Still, 20 minutes from you is like 2 hours for me. I just thought I could mention a trick that I've been using to save these videos of your with. For me, it is easier if they are local on my hard drive instead of inside youtube and a web browser. I'm sure that many have heard about youtube-dl - a nifty command line tool. Get it of github; but, there is a fork of this tool that to me is even better.

 

https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/releases/latest/download/yt-dlp.exe

 

Basically what you do is put that tool in your path. Open the video inside youtube - copy the url, and then ... via a cmd line run 'yt-dlp <paste link to youtube url>' - video is by default ok for me, but, you may like to spend some time on other options

 

[JamieP]

3 hours ago, ARMYAVIATION said:

Can you post the ball rolling routine and ball shadow portion of the script so we can try it please

It is in my last few tables. “Drink Absolut” for example, I tried to post a link but I amin a bar in Lanzarote. It is a much simpler shadow from 0 to 0.75 across the width of the table cos that’s what the light looks like from my cab 😁

[leeoneil]

I'm curently discovering Blender with your video @bord

Yeah i know, probably a silly idea but maybe i can do it...

For the first one probably it will take me probably two weeks...

 

30 minutes later i'm here 😅

 

One hour later... 🤪

 

 

 

Edit : i'm stuck here.
Searching on the net didn't gave me any answer.
I cannot hide the objects from the camera. There is no menu Properties panel > Object > Visibility > Ray Visibility, and disable Camera

I don't know what i am doing wrong. Thank you if someone can help me !

[bord]

Oh wow.

6 hours ago, leeoneil said:

I'm curently discovering Blender with your video @bord

Yeah i know, probably a silly idea but maybe i can do it...

For the first one probably it will take me probably two weeks...

 

30 minutes later i'm here 😅

 

 

One hour later... 🤪

 

 

Oh wow. You did great. Nicely done!

 

You probably have Evee as your default render engine. It is unfortunate that Blender defaults to that. I have mine set on Cycles. Once you have Cycles enabled you will see the correct options for object visibility.

 

[bord]

I did one more before bed tonight just to think through where the process could be improved. I have a few additional little things that you can do or watch out for that could improve this approach if anyone is interested.

 

This is a game that needs to be rebuilt from scanned assets. It is so terrific.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Sax5_9XcZCLvzD8hgwcEKyMtcM7yMeXi&authuser=adrian.bordeleau%40gmail.com&usp=drive_fs

[leeoneil]

Thank you @bord i'll give it another try this evening.

 

Just a question about Gi_on and Gi_Off.

Do you want to get rid of it because when it's off, we will continue to see the shadow (without light on the table) ?

Do you want to get rid of it because the real EM tables does not turn on and off like that ?

 

For the first point, is it not possible to "load" the shadows file when Gi is on ?

Is it impossible with VPX ?

[bord]

1 hour ago, leeoneil said:

Thank you @bord i'll give it another try this evening.

 

Just a question about Gi_on and Gi_Off.

Do you want to get rid of it because when it's off, we will continue to see the shadow (without light on the table) ?

Do you want to get rid of it because the real EM tables does not turn on and off like that ?

 

For the first point, is it not possible to "load" the shadows file when Gi is on ?

Is it impossible with VPX ?

 

Yes on both counts. There aren't any EMs where the GI changes state except when tilted. Since these are recreations I think it is best to recreate them the way the GI behaves as well. If VPX offered dynamic 3d lighting I could see the appeal of adding extra GI state changes, but as-is changing the GI light just accentuates how flat and limited VPX lighting is.

 

That said, you can change the shadows via script very easily. Because you are darkening the table with your GI on shadows, you would also want to render a GI off shadow layer with an overhead area light. This will give you two flashers in VPX. Call one "GIon_flasher" and the other "GIoff_flasher." Jeff used "Sub PlasticsOn" and "Sub PlasticsOff" on most of his tables. In Sub PlasticsOn add "GIon_flasher.visible=1:GIoff_flasher.visible=0". In Sub PlasticsOff add "GIon_flasher.visible=0:GIoff_flasher.visible=1".

 

Then search "plasticsoff" in the script and replace it with "plasticson" in all cases except the tilt sub.

[bord]

18 hours ago, Thalamus said:

Thanks again @bord for your input on how this can be improved; not spending too much time. Still, 20 minutes from you is like 2 hours for me.

 

 

Once you do it twice you'll have the time cost way down. You can copy/paste cameras, lights, materials as needed.

[Thalamus]

Yes. I see your point and it all seem very doable looking at the video for the second time around. I've tried much of this before, but, has not been able to end up with something looking as good as your preview(s). It might have to do with your photoshop steps, putting several layers on top of each other and then tone them down in vp later on.

[JFR1]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks @bordfor spending time on this and good luck @leeoneil!  

[JFR1]

Oh!  A couple years back I spent a 'lost weekend' trying to do a ramp mod in Blender and thankfully bord bailed me out or I'd still be working on it.  

[leeoneil]

🤩🤩YEEEEEEES ! 🤩🤩

 

 

Thank you @bord !!!!!

I know your vidéo was not for me, but your informations, many pauses, a bit of internet research and i've managed to do it !!!!

Yeah i know it's quite futile, but i'm totally discovering blender, so for me it's an achievement !

Please, do not erase your vidéo now ! 😅

I need to do it again, and again to be comfortable.

 

So, i have now a loserman76 table with DOF, with SSF thank's to @Thalamus, with a better balls shadow thank's to Thalamus again, with the 15th wall corrected (Thalamus) and with a better look (thank's again @bord)

And it's a 10.7 file... F..ck... 😐

I think it's time to release it no ?

[bord]

12 minutes ago, leeoneil said:

🤩🤩YEEEEEEES ! 🤩🤩

 

 

Thank you @bord !!!!!

I know your vidéo was not for me, but your informations, many pauses, a bit of internet research and i've managed to do it !!!!

Yeah i know it's quite futile, but i'm totally discovering blender, so for me it's an achievement !

Please, do not erase your vidéo now ! 😅

I need to do it again, and again to be comfortable.

 

So, i have now a loserman76 table with DOF, with SSF thank's to @Thalamus, with a better balls shadow thank's to Thalamus again, with the 15th wall corrected (Thalamus) and with a better look (thank's again @bord)

And it's a 10.7 file... F..ck... 😐

I think it's time to release it no ?

 

Hey congratulations @leeoneil! Blender is difficult to learn. That is a huge accomplishment.

 

From what I'm seeing you have a really nice shadow layer. I recommend making it a little less opaque in the flasher settings and then increasing the intensity and size of the larger VP GI lights. I think that will really show off your work.

 

Great job!

[leeoneil]

I tried to apply the same values.

(falloff 140/ falloff 2/ intensity 6) and here is the result, it's not very good :

 

I need to understand these properties.. (yes sorry but i'm discovering VPX too 😐)

 

I need to improve my shadow layer, i forgot one light (two are very very close on top of the playfield), and i create a wall that does not exist !!!
i spend one hour trying to understand how to extrude for nothing ! 🤪

 

edit :

The crazy thing is the time my computer need to render the shadow image.... More than 15 minutes !

I have an intel 10400f, 16 Go of memory... That's crazy, just for one little image.... (4096*2048)....