VPE: Terminator 2 WIP

[foofoorabbit]

Honestly, the "major step" is VR. Every 3D option on a 2D screen cab is a hack that will never be great.

[freezy]

The first step is probably going to be Tilt5 because I kinda own it to Jeri. After that, why not play around with the other modes, they sound fun!

[mandermannen]

You know i dont have any knowledge of this, i only use co pilot to search 😀 and he says its not possible to project sbs on a monitor, not even with a converter. And i know that VR is the best right now, but when you have a cab, you want the experience the cab, not only the screen. And since you are building a really beautifull 3d engine, i believe its worth the effort to show it in 3d in a cab, instead of 2d, because every 3d model looks a little flat on a cabinet monitor 

[mandermannen]

Also, when i go to the movie for a 3d movie, i get a passive 3d glas, the colors looks good, why is this not possible for vpe?

[kiloNova]

I can't express how excited I am for everything you're doing! Every video you release gets me even more amped up Also, my girlfriend has been notified 😁 

[Gravy]

17 hours ago, mandermannen said:

Also, when i go to the movie for a 3d movie, i get a passive 3d glas, the colors looks good, why is this not possible for vpe?

Passive 3D glasses require a compatible 3D screen that has a filter over the top of the screen surface consisting of very thin alternating polarised stripes ("FPR" - Film-type patterned retarder) , this is usually circular polarised and each stripe is either clockwise or anticlockwise polarisation. It reduces the screen resolution on one axis by half so on a 1080p screen you end up with 1920x540 per eye.

LG released quite a few models of 1080p 42" passive 3D screens over several years (as did several other brands), you can still buy them secondhand (I've got both an LG 42" and also an LG 32" 3D screen). Colour is great, you lose a little brightness when wearing the glasses. The main downer is the resolution reduction and some ghosting at the left and right of the screen but its still pretty cool, only 60hz though. There were some 4K 43" passive 3D screens released by a company in Europe but they are rare, the panels were made by a company in Turkey called Vestel and used in 3D TV screens sold by Technisat (in their Technimedia TVs) and Finlux. The model of the panel itself is ves430qnel‑3d‑u01

I think that particular passive 3D panel is in the following TVs (likely to be a few more brands containing the panel):
VESTEL 4K 3D SMART 43UA9400
TECHNIMEDIA UHD+ 43 (unsure of exact model number)
Finlux 43UT3E310B-T  (they also released a 49" 49UT3E310B-T)

These screens are more likely to be found secondhand in Europe, unsure if they were sold outside EU, I would love to find one but I'm in Australia so I think its a pipe dream. 


In case you didn't know, if you use the GL version of Visual Pinball 10.8 it will give you true stereo 3D compared to the Reshade 3D method with Superdepth3D. GL will correctly handle transparent surfaces so it no longer has the issue with objects below transparent ramps appearing to be painted on the underside of the ramp. However, there is no proper support for the Trioviz glasses, you can try the magenta/green (or green/magenta) option though and it will still work to a degree.

Keep in mind that if you have a cab, you can still experience the feel of the cab in VR by using it as the controller, you just align the VR image so that it matches up with the position of your cab.

Edited April 29 by Gravy

[mandermannen]

Thank you so much for this information! I live in the netherlands and will search for this tv. Do you know witch glasses you need to watch this true stereo 3D in the GL version?

 

[Gravy]

5 hours ago, mandermannen said:

Thank you so much for this information! I live in the netherlands and will search for this tv. Do you know witch glasses you need to watch this true stereo 3D in the GL version?

 

You may be in luck then based on your location. Be sure there is a passive 3D function on any TV that you buy though as some models may look the same but are missing the 3D filter, note that active 3D screens can have an issue with blacking out when rotated to portrait orientation (when you are wearing the active glasses) however passive 3D works fine in portrait mode. When using GL you don't even really need to use the inbuilt 3D function of the TV as VPX GL is able to output a 3D interlaced image and bypasses the software of the TV, provided the TV has the 3D filter screen. This is very handy as it means all your front end UI will still work without looking garbled.

On my LG 3D TVs I need to use the "Flipped interlace" mode in VPX or else the 3D image is inverted and looks strange.

If you get one of the 3D TVs I listed then you can use circular polarised cinema 3D glasses (the ones cinemas supply when you watch a movie at the cinema in the last 15 years or so, sometimes branded "RealD"). Keep in mind that the LG 42" 1080p passive 3D TVs are much more common to find secondhand. Try to find a model from around 2015 or 2016 as they have thinner bezels and reduced input lag. Some of the older models work better if you set the TV to PC mode (or name the input "PC") as this can greatly reduce input lag which makes VPX very unenjoyable due to flipper delay.

 

If you don't get a 3D TV you can still try your Trioviz glasses in either magenta/green or green/magenta mode (I cant recall which one works). Note that trioviz are somewhat slightly different colour lenses compared to regular green/magenta 3D glasses, Trioviz may still work but ghosting may be worse.

You can also use blue/amber (brown) glasses also sold as "Colorcode 3D". These tend to make the TV image quite dark, especially the blue lens. I've also found that the blue lens reduces the light into your eye so much that it can cause focus issues if your eyesight isn't that great to start with. Probably better suited to younger eyes.

The most commonly used anaglyph 3D glasses though are the red/cyan glasses. Quality of these can vary a lot however "Anachrome" Aviator 3D Glasses are often considered amongst the best. Unfortunately this particular style of glasses is sold out as far as I know. There is another Anachrome being sold at https://3dgear.com/products/anachrome-ii-blue-frames but I havent heard much about whether these are as good as the Aviator models. The aviators had a slight diopter magnification on the red lens which is meant to enhance the 3D effect, unsure if these alternative Anachrome also have that feature. They are also expensive to ship to Europe (or anywhere outside the USA). Some users also prefer Neurotracker Red/Blue anaglyph glasses.

Note that Anaglyph 3D usually requires some tuning of the TV colours or adjusting VPX 3D settings to get right (there is an inbuilt calibration tool in VPX but it is kind of hidden away a bit). Adjusting colour intensity/brightness/contrast/temperature can all play a part.

Apologies to Freezy for the thread derail.

Edited April 29 by Gravy

[mandermannen]

Thank you for all this information, this is really helpfull! Is have an LG 42LA7408 second hand on sight. I hope the 3d experience will outcast my Asus rog 4k screen. I hope the lag of the  3d screen isn't noticeable.

[Gravy]

3 hours ago, mandermannen said:

Thank you for all this information, this is really helpfull! Is have an LG 42LA7408 second hand on sight. I hope the 3d experience will outcast my Asus rog 4k screen. I hope the lag of the  3d screen isn't noticeable.

Naturally the resolution and refresh rate will be much lower than your 4K screen, the LG 42LA7408 is only 1080p 60hz so in 3D mode the resolution will be 1920x540 per eye. You will also notice very thin black lines between each row of pixels (or column of pixels when the screen is in portrait orientation. Be sure to set the screen to Game mode and also change the input label to "PC", if this label does not exist as  selectable option you can type the name in manually with the remote, this will help ensure the lowest level of flipper lag.

If the TV is cheap enough and you just want to experiment a bit then its likely worth getting one. Keep an eye out for those elusive 4K 3D models I mentioned though.

3D screens tend to work best in a cabinet if you set up the screen angle to be about the same angle as the glass of a real pinball table, imagine that the screen surface is actually the pinball glass. Set up your screen dimensions and angle in VPX Graphics settings, then use the "window" mode of VPX GL to automatically adjust the POV (by pressing the enter key when window mode is selected in F12 menu). I just have my screen laying on a desk in portrait orientation and propped up at the back end. Also ensure the screen aspect ratio is set to "Just Scan" which will display the PC screen without any overscan at 1:1 pixel ratio, necessary for 3D mode. 

I suggest joining the discord for "Virtual Pinball Chat" which has a channel dedicated to "anaglyph-3d-vpx" where users of passive 3D screens can also get some setup tips.

Ultimately, VR is really where I spend most of my pinball playing time these days as it offers high resolution/full colour stereo 3D/high refresh (up to 120hz on Quest 3) and most importantly, full headtracking so you can look all around the table. 3D screens are certainly still of interest to me though as its a different type of experience, its almost magical looking into a 3D screen and seeing the depth of the playfield below the glass.

It will be interesting to see how Freezy goes implementing Tilt5 support with VPE.

We should probably continue this chat elsewhere and let the thread get back to its original intention.

Edited April 30 by Gravy

[Gravy]

Ooops, double post.

Edited April 30 by Gravy

[mandermannen]

Really Thanks for all the tips! I just found this tv https://www.lg.com/ca_en/tv-soundbars/oled/oled42c2pua/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4CE-j0skmlWTR_dbCrYhPYcKsSsKxVNKqYnMz0_ZPVeMKpqO6

 

It says it has 3d? If this really is then I have to find one. I try to send you a pm but it didn't work,I also do not want to hack this thread with my things

[Gravy]

8 hours ago, mandermannen said:

Really Thanks for all the tips! I just found this tv https://www.lg.com/ca_en/tv-soundbars/oled/oled42c2pua/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4CE-j0skmlWTR_dbCrYhPYcKsSsKxVNKqYnMz0_ZPVeMKpqO6

 

It says it has 3d? If this really is then I have to find one. I try to send you a pm but it didn't work,I also do not want to hack this thread with my things

My mailbox on here is likely full. Are you on discord? My username there is gravy7513, contact me there.

The LG C2 is a great screen used by quite a few VP cabinet owners but unfortunately not 3D.

I've opened a new thread to continue this discussion at 

 

Edited April 30 by Gravy