End of an Era

[Chindogg]

As someone newer to this hobby, I thought about getting into colorization to help the community that's given me so much enjoyment. However I cannot in good conscious move forward with the knowledge that there's someone trying to lock up my potential output behind DRM to protect their profits. That just goes against what we're trying to do as a hobby here. It just feels wrong.

[slippifishi]

It was only ever about giving back to the community for me. I have stated it before elsewhere on this forum or another, but when I first arrived in the community I really wanted to help and get my name out there, but I felt like I was too late to the party to create tables - there were soooo many great examples out there already, I had no chance of creating something that good. The only area of the community I could find that still seemed to have an opportunity to make a name for yourself was DMD colouring, and so I ended up here on VPU.

 

For example, I recall really enjoying playing Flintstones VP9, but there was no VPX version for ages. I took the bold decision to create a colour project for that game in the hope that it might spur a table creator to justify working on a VPX version. I don't know how big an influence my project was on getting the FS VPX project started, but eventually it did come to be and I was very proud to get my project "officially" included with that release and have my name in the same readme alongside great names like G5k, 3rdaxis, DJRobX and so on (and Wob of course, someone who has done far more for the VPIN community through his DMD colour testing alone than I think many people realise). My FS project was created for VPX and even if you use the real pin files, the game credits are replaced with the VPX dev team.

 

With respect to my real pin projects, I don't and won't charge for them simply because they are just a side product of my VPIN projects and it also might imply some level of on-going support. My real pin files are free, they are all available here on VPU (with the exception of demoman because I don't consider it complete, but its available on request - for free of course!). If you download them and they work for you, great, I'm jealous, I've never seen one of my own projects in a real machine in the flesh! If they don't, well then I'm sorry, maybe you will get lucky and I will do an update one day and fix it, or maybe you won't, you just have to ask and try your luck!

 

I would prefer to leave my VPIN projects as VNI/PAL simply because I don't see any benefit for me as a DMD colour artist to move to PAC at this point; the benefit of combining the files so they don't get mixed up is not something I feel I have really had any trouble with, I already rename and zip the VNI and PAL files up into a single zip for upload, and I'm not currently working on any projects right now anyway. If I do start anything new, I will probably continue to use the same colouring methods I have already learned and know are supported by v1.10, so as long as the editor supports that export format and VPU will host them, I will continue to provide them. For the record, realistically, I don't think I will start anything new so to speak, though I think I would like to go back and do some 64 colour upgrades to my other projects eventually.

[bushav]

The argument that a single PAC file is very easy to install and a combination VNI/PAL file is difficult to install just doesn’t float with me. Sure new enthusiast need guidance during their first install but if you can unzip and rename a file (as most people can) then you have all the skills necessary. 
 

I could be incorrectly assessing this situation but I feels like one person deciding that it is their mission to control who gets a color DMD and how a colorization project is published. I suppose if your the creator of the DMD project editor and control it with a key code that authors need then maybe we were well on our way to this day long long ago.  
 

As a previous builder of a batch of Pin2DMD’s I justified the activation cost as “purchasing customer support”. The customer support from Lucky1 is amazingly quick.
 

Lucky1 has a very strict interpretation of what I could perform on my end Im regards to customer support. I sold my extras at only my actual cost reimbursement. I would have liked to install the firmware for one of the customers who I could tell was tech ignorant. However that was deemed a commercial activity and I wound up walking the customer through the install over countless emails. It was a little ironic that at the heart of these projects is a ROM that belongs to some corporation out there. 

 

You guys have probably been following the situation with Pin2DMD. At the present moment the supply chain is really squeezing that product. It is becoming very difficult to build a successful batch and the cost is significantly increasing. I don’t think it is productive to restrict guys looking for alternative solutions. 
 

Administrator please repost the VNI/PAL files and let users decide the format for themselves. That is in the spirit of this hobby. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by bushav

[Tikimaster]

Unfortunately, I feared something like this. I would have liked to see everyone working together on one API.... Very disappointing. I want to say thankyou for the work of everybody. At the end of the day, it's about the improvements for all and I am not sure about the Idea that one controls all. What if that "one" got lost? Thanks for the Info ..

[DBrown67]

2 hours ago, slippifishi said:

If I do start anything new, I will probably continue to use the same colouring methods I have already learned and know are supported by v1.10, so as long as the editor supports that export format and VPU will host them, I will continue to provide them. 

 

See... this is the main point. This guy spent ages making the excellent Flinstones colourisation. So if he can stay with Freezy and continue releasing .pal /.vni files then why can't other creators do the same? Obviously it's down to the creators really, but I can't see how this Lucky1 guy can force anyone to release .pac only. Or am I missing something?

[usul27]

He doesn't force authors to do so.  However, when talking about the "100s of hours" authors spent on colorisations, it should be also noted the freezy probably spent much more time on DMDExt. Thisis now being used to make sure others can make money. A clean and legal way would have been to provide a closed source DMD renderer that does not use any GPL code. I'm pretty sure he was aware that the new format wouldn't have been accepted at all if it could be only be with Pin2DMD devices. So it was a clear decision to use GPL code to force users into a closed-source application.  

Edited May 21, 2022 by usul27

[LynnInDenver]

12 minutes ago, usul27 said:

He doesn't force authors to do so.  However, when talking about the "100s of hours" authors spent on colorisations, it should be also noted the freezy probably spent much more time on DMDExt. Thisis now being used to make sure others can make money. A clean and legal way would have been to provide a closed source DMD renderer that does not use any GPL code. I'm pretty sure he was aware that the new format wouldn't have been accepted at all if it could be only be with Pin2DMD devices. So it was a clear decision to use GPL code to force users into a closed-source application.  

 

Yeah, and even then, he could have provided a closed source rendered that would have also worked directly in place of Freezy's dll for those of us with virtual LCD solutions.

 

Overall, this very much feels like a situation of, "get things to a certain uptake, then cram the new scheme down everyone's throats with the help of the creators, and never mind who it pisses off because if you want color for cheap with an option to colorize for yourself, you have to pony up to MY bar to do it." To a certain extent, Pin2DMD uptake on the physical pinball side is in part from people who don't want to spend the $300-400 on a ColorDMD solution, yet still want a colorized DMD, in a market where the current "low end" of a DMD pin is now $4,000. Admittedly, this new scheme is being helped along by the fact that ColorDMD can't keep product in stock because a key chip of their solution isn't available, with no clue when that chip will come back in stock.

 

I have time tomorrow. I was going to work on Twitch channel intro stuff, but now I get to work on disabling ROM DMD colorization on my cabinet so I don't take a chance of bringing more people to the colorization party.

[usul27]

44 minutes ago, LynnInDenver said:

Yeah, and even then, he could have provided a closed source rendered that would have also worked directly in place of Freezy's dll for those of us with virtual LCD solutions.

Yes, that would have been the correct way to handle it. But I guess, he simply didn't want to spend "100s of hours" when others already did the work . That said about "copycats". 

Edited May 21, 2022 by usul27

[NetzZwerg]

First, I would like to express my deepest respect to @freezy, @lucky1, and everyone else involved in making coloring possible at the scale it is today! It makes me sad to see

I also want to say a few words about my history in this whole subject.
The only reason I started coloring games was to make the game more fun and make my pincab look nicer. Same time it seemed like I found a way to give something back to the community. Since I still don't have a single real pinball machine, everything focused on virtual pinball and the vpin community. Gradually, however, there were increasing requests for real pinball machines and users' demands for the display to be as error-free as possible. As a result, my focus was very much on the real pinball machine and the Vpin community also benefited from it. The whole thing was and is a big challenge for me that I follow passionately, as some of you might imagine. And yeah, good to know people like my stuff, this also motivates me next to the challenge itself.

 

I didn't know anything about the background Freezy pointed out above when Lucky1 urged me to export pac and take the vni and pal files from the server. It was not clear to me, what and who else is involved into that "small change" as it looked to me first. There were three reasons  that convinced me, as I understood them:

1. the change to the pac format eliminates a risk for VPU
2. the pac format is supposed to improve the colorization result, which has been confirmed in some cases.  ( I don´t know why technically, i am no programmer)
3. it could be possible in the future that someone bypasses the recently introduced UID system on real pinball machines by using the vpin files with other hardware/software.

Since I know that people are happy with my real pin files and my almost personal 24/7 support, I don´t really care about this third reason. Also there will always be people who try to hack stuff, no matter how much you try to secure it imho.

Now after knowing more circumstances ( @NailBuster brought it to the point with his summary on the dll thread) I feel bad about it.

The only reason I did not reupload the old files again yet is reason number 1, because Lucky1 told me about the risk for VPU. But he does not hold me back in case it looks like.
But I am really wondering what to do now. I would love the devs would find a solution that all are good with. If we produce a risk for VPU we should really reconcider to upload the vni again or find another solution to support the pac files. Until this is getting more clear to me  I don´t have a solution for now.

[Tikimaster]

13 minutes ago, NetzZwerg said:

the change to the pac format eliminates a risk for VPU

I am not in, what kind of risk? thanks..

[usul27]

@Netzwerg: Thank you for the background information from you. This shines a completely new light into this. My understanding was that the reason for authors to remove their files was 3 (money)

My personal throughts on this:

1. In general I don't really see the risk for VPU. However, it would be easy to share these files on an external server as it is done with PUPPacks (which are usually way more critical when it comes to copyrighted material). As VPU doesn't seem to have issues linking PUPPacks, I don't see why the same should not work with colorisations. It would also be easy for Lucky to create an unencrypted version of the PAC file format that is fully documented. This might be much better as you could PROVE that there is no copyrighted material included. You can't prove this with an encrypted format.
2. The right way to improve colorisation results would be a good documentation of the file format to allow programmers like Freezy to fully implement it. Unfortunately the exact opposite happend (which is not your fault).
3. Thanks for letting us know. I heard different things, but it's good to hear your clear statement on this. 

BTW: You just got a beer 😉
 

Edited May 21, 2022 by usul27

[Ashram56]

History tends to repeat itself

 

The following will sound awfully familiar:

- Pinsound created this neat sound card, but needed sound remix for available machines

- They partnered with Pinmame authors (open source...) to enable altsound package and enable the vpin community to create sound remix

- A little while later, after the board was successful and numerous packages were created, a DIY alternative appeared, RaspiSound (to be renamed later to Tilt Audio to avoid legal troubles)

- Pinsound team got pissed, sued the author of TiltAudio (and lost by the way), removed support for Pinmame in their editor, and created a new format which was closed source and encrypted

 

I guess you can all see the similarity

 

The irony ? The author of TiltAudio is actually the author of PIN2DMD Editor...

 

Guess where it ended: most key pinsound sound remix have been unencrypted, and there are even tools now that can help with the decryption

 

Now on the topic of PIN2DMD, reading the whole thread and history, we can all have a pretty good idea of how things panned out (at least if various postings can be considered as true), but the situation has reached a point where bad blood has been exchanged on both sides (calling names the other in a public forum is never a good way to settle a feud), so it's unlikely to be resolved. Unless both parties agree to a trusted middle man that would represent both sides in a common discussion, removing all emotion to find a path for agreement.

 

Because frankly, in the end, there are three potential outcome right now:

 

- freezy manage to convince all colorization authors to keep using PAL/VNI. PAC format is not used by anyone, completely defeating the purpose of it. Downside is that no further enhancements from PIN2DMD can be ported over to vpin, and because authors need to keep compatibility, they can't use them either (as far as I understand). Stalemate, no one really wins

- Colorization authors massively convert to PAC, for whatever reason. vpin community is dependent on lucky to update his fork, side projects like zedmd are affected , VPE can't support colorization. vpin community loses big time, credibility of lucky is seriously affected however (if it matters to him), likely some side projects will rise to take up the mantle, potentially creating a rift with DMD displays for vpin, and DMD displays for real pinball, from different projects.

- Mixed reaction, some will support PAC, some will support PAL/VNI. Massive confusion and potential source of bugs and support issues

 

In all three scenarios, there's not really a winner, so I would really hope that common sense will prevail.

 

I would just like to issue a call to colorization authors: just because this situation is messy, to say the least, real pinball owners have no responsibility into it. Closing access to your colorizations to them , as I've seen some imply, just because of the current situation is doing no one a favor. If anything, stick to the last version of the editor with PAL/VNI format, you will not benefit from the latest features linked to PAC (whatever they are), but at least you can keep everyone happy. 

[Darkstar]

47 minutes ago, Ashram56 said:

History tends to repeat itself

 

The following will sound awfully familiar:

- Pinsound created this neat sound card, but needed sound remix for available machines

- They partnered with Pinmame authors (open source...) to enable altsound package and enable the vpin community to create sound remix

- A little while later, after the board was successful and numerous packages were created, a DIY alternative appeared, RaspiSound (to be renamed later to Tilt Audio to avoid legal troubles)

- Pinsound team got pissed, sued the author of TiltAudio (and lost by the way), removed support for Pinmame in their editor, and created a new format which was closed source and encrypted

 

I guess you can all see the similarity

 

The irony ? The author of TiltAudio is actually the author of PIN2DMD Editor...

 

Guess where it ended: most key pinsound sound remix have been unencrypted, and there are even tools now that can help with the decryption

 

Now on the topic of PIN2DMD, reading the whole thread and history, we can all have a pretty good idea of how things panned out (at least if various postings can be considered as true), but the situation has reached a point where bad blood has been exchanged on both sides (calling names the other in a public forum is never a good way to settle a feud), so it's unlikely to be resolved. Unless both parties agree to a trusted middle man that would represent both sides in a common discussion, removing all emotion to find a path for agreement.

 

Because frankly, in the end, there are three potential outcome right now:

 

- freezy manage to convince all colorization authors to keep using PAL/VNI. PAC format is not used by anyone, completely defeating the purpose of it. Downside is that no further enhancements from PIN2DMD can be ported over to vpin, and because authors need to keep compatibility, they can't use them either (as far as I understand). Stalemate, no one really wins

- Colorization authors massively convert to PAC, for whatever reason. vpin community is dependent on lucky to update his fork, side projects like zedmd are affected , VPE can't support colorization. vpin community loses big time, credibility of lucky is seriously affected however (if it matters to him), likely some side projects will rise to take up the mantle, potentially creating a rift with DMD displays for vpin, and DMD displays for real pinball, from different projects.

- Mixed reaction, some will support PAC, some will support PAL/VNI. Massive confusion and potential source of bugs and support issues

 

In all three scenarios, there's not really a winner, so I would really hope that common sense will prevail.

 

I would just like to issue a call to colorization authors: just because this situation is messy, to say the least, real pinball owners have no responsibility into it. Closing access to your colorizations to them , as I've seen some imply, just because of the current situation is doing no one a favor. If anything, stick to the last version of the editor with PAL/VNI format, you will not benefit from the latest features linked to PAC (whatever they are), but at least you can keep everyone happy. 

 

[LynnInDenver]

1 hour ago, Ashram56 said:

Because frankly, in the end, there are three potential outcome right now:

 

- freezy manage to convince all colorization authors to keep using PAL/VNI. PAC format is not used by anyone, completely defeating the purpose of it. Downside is that no further enhancements from PIN2DMD can be ported over to vpin, and because authors need to keep compatibility, they can't use them either (as far as I understand). Stalemate, no one really wins

- Colorization authors massively convert to PAC, for whatever reason. vpin community is dependent on lucky to update his fork, side projects like zedmd are affected , VPE can't support colorization. vpin community loses big time, credibility of lucky is seriously affected however (if it matters to him), likely some side projects will rise to take up the mantle, potentially creating a rift with DMD displays for vpin, and DMD displays for real pinball, from different projects.

- Mixed reaction, some will support PAC, some will support PAL/VNI. Massive confusion and potential source of bugs and support issues

 

In all three scenarios, there's not really a winner, so I would really hope that common sense will prevail.

 

I would say that, out of the three options, unfortunately we're likely going to get a mix of 2 & 3 right now. Many of the authors will move to PAC because it provides perceived advantages and makes it easier to effectively get Physical Pin owners with interest in using Pin2DMD over ColorDMD to pay them, except for a few holdouts, who will either wash their hands of continuing to do colorization work in general, or will stick with the version of the software they have. The loss of colorization in VPE will cause a bit of a rift - we were already going to see a rift, since I get the sense VPE, when it's released, won't be released at VPF and some there will refuse to touch it as a result, but this will further the potential of it, as some people won't want to lose those sweet, sweet colorization and will stick with VPX where they can bolt it in.

 

Lucky will suffer a hit to credibility in any scenario, at least for the developers who pay attention, even if he immediately backs off and releases his spec to Freezy right now to implement freely in his dll. Those at VPF who already considered him problematic will file this under proof as to why. Colorization as a whole will likely suffer a hit in association, unless someone can come up with an alternative that's actually better, or at least much easier for color authors to actually implement.

[goredaimon]

Greetings from Brazil.

 

I have 7 real machines here and sell all my plasma displays and change for the pin2dmd project because I like to support open projects.

 

One thing I disagree is people make money selling visual pinball cabinets and they don't need to pay for the dmd colorization.

I paid some authors to get some colorization for my real pins, and I think the real pin owners are the biggest support on this work.

It´s very unfair with real pin owners and colorization creators.

 

That's it.

[Wylte]

1 hour ago, goredaimon said:

Greetings from Brazil.

 

I have 7 real machines here and sell all my plasma displays and change for the pin2dmd project because I like to support open projects.

 

One thing I disagree is people make money selling visual pinball cabinets and they don't need to pay for the dmd colorization.

I paid some authors to get some colorization for my real pins, and I think the real pin owners are the biggest support on this work.

It´s very unfair with real pin owners and colorization creators.

 

That's it.

Trying to figure out what you're saying, as it's a little lost in translation.  Are you saying that everyone should pay for colorizations?  Because if that's it...no.  The best things in vpin are open source and shared freely.  Passion projects are better off being driven by passion.  In my opinion, more things in real pinball being freely shared would be healthy for the hobby.  Money always complicates things, encourages focus testing (stifling creativity) and reducing competition.  And leads to situations like this.

[lucky1]

8 hours ago, Ashram56 said:

stick to the last version of the editor with PAL/VNI format,

The latest version of the editor supports both pac and vni export. It is up to the author which way to go. 

The technical difference between pac and vni is that vni is not 100% properly working (and most likely never will be) in the freezy DLL

while both formats are properly working with my DLL. The pros and cons of the rest is something we leave to the author to decide.

 

6 hours ago, LynnInDenver said:

The loss of colorization in VPE will cause a bit of a rift

 

As some of you might know, the dmddevice.dll interface in vpinmame that all device drivers use was added by me to the source of pinmame. I also integrated it into XDMD and it made its way into almost all other programs that use a DMD.   

As far as I know VPE will also rely on pinmame for ROM emulation and therefore DMD display. The only difference is that it uses pinmameD instead of vpinmame. I had a look at the source and I see no reason why I should not be able to offer coloring for that ? 

[LynnInDenver]

5 hours ago, lucky1 said:

The technical difference between pac and vni is that vni is not 100% properly working (and most likely never will be) in the freezy DLL

while both formats are properly working with my DLL. The pros and cons of the rest is something we leave to the author to decide.

 

The implication I've received in this thread from Freezy about this specific is that he was more than willing to integrate bug fixes for it... and you basically did an "easier for me" run around with an added piece of software that ties into his DLL for final output rather than put up with the inherent delay of contributing to another project, which adds additional complexity to software installs, invalidates all previous tutorials about installing color DMD support, and apparently also violates the license he has on the software, and your request that he change it on his end to prevent the conflict is literally non trivial because he has to contact all the other contributors to his project for permission to change it, and that permission needs to be unanimous or contributions from those who don't grant permission (or can't be reached!) would need to be pulled and replaced. And there's no indication there's enough benefit to the Freezy DLL project to justify that level of extra effort that should be going into development. Not even you implying that you don't think the issues with it can't be 100% fixed is sufficient justification for demanding a license change.

 

There have been serious accusations of license violations and IP theft over at VPF leveled at you for years, and patent violations from ColorDMD leveled against you on Pinside. I am currently dismayed because Freezy has laid out a serious case of similar accusations against you here, which has changed the equation for me, and not in a good way. And this has muddied the waters sufficiently that I'm going to, at minimum, disable colorizations on tables that have been updated to be only PAC files; I'm a Twitch streamer specializing in Visual Pinball, and I won't show colorizations on tables that require your new software setup. And I have colorizations in general under full review, because the "no PAC" decision requires me to add checking for that into my preflight routines, when I'm already checking for updates to tables and backglasses and PuP-Packs.

[bushav]

@LynnInDenver I don’t disagree with your statements except for the “preflight” comment. If you don’t update your DMD dll then your machine can’t run PAC files and you can cross that verification off the preflight. Like you I’m sticking with Freezy. When Lucky1 updated to 64 colors we VPin guys were left behind. Lucky1 stated we would have to wait on Freezy to issue an update. Now there is some difficult to understand reasoning that Lucky1 wasn’t willing to wait on Freezy to modify the VPin side. Seems strange to me and like a double standard. Also the IP arguments seem to favor one side while discounting the IP of all other parties.  I’m happy with the color projects I have and am willing to wait on an alternative, a peace treaty, or just stick with the idea I may never see another colorization. 

[LynnInDenver]

5 minutes ago, bushav said:

@LynnInDenver I don’t disagree with your statements except for the “preflight” comment. If you don’t update your DMD dll then your machine can’t run PAC files and you can cross that verification off the preflight. Like you I’m sticking with Freezy. When Lucky1 updated to 64 colors we VPin guys were left behind. Lucky1 stated we would have to wait on Freezy to issue an update. Now there is some difficult to understand reasoning that Lucky1 wasn’t willing to wait on Freezy to modify the VPin side. Seems strange to me and like a double standard. Also the IP arguments seem to favor one side while discounting the IP of all other parties.  I’m happy with the color projects I have and am willing to wait on an alternative, a peace treaty, or just stick with the idea I may never see another colorization. 

 

OK, I'll spell it out - the preflight for color is that I'd check to see, "OK, I have color on this DMD, is that still available as PAL/VNI, or did the author update so that only PAC is available now?" The intention there would be, "OK, only PAC? Disable color so that I don't accidentally send someone to download a file that requires the Lucky1 software." That I currently have PAL/VNI is not what the check is for, it's to check to see in case someone goes, "neat, color, I want that for my vpin" and checks to see where to download it.

 

I'm not quite sure what I'll do with the hybrid downloads (PAC and PAL/VNI both available in the latest version), given that then it's Dealer's Choice as to whether they use Freezy or Lucky1 software.

 

You are correct that there is a definite double standard. "I think the process of updating is too slow, so I'm gonna break the license to get it faster." Plus, yeah, there is a certain element of that with regards to all this talk of the license of Freezy and what Lucky1 is doing that violates it, yet we're technically violating the license of the pinball ROMs, that are typically incorporated with the operator purchase of a pinball machine decades ago, and in some cases technically even preclude someone owning the machine in their private home arcade.

[sudsy7]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what this kerfuffle is all about.  Users have the option to use freezy... or lucky dll.  And freezy is free to incorporate the 64-color changes... or not.  Color artists have the option to  publish in .vni ...or .pac ...or both.  It doesn't seem confusing to me.  It doesn't seem like anyone has centralized control.   Options are a good thing - what am I missing?

[bushav]

37 minutes ago, sudsy7 said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what this kerfuffle is all about.  Users have the option to use freezy... or lucky dll.  And freezy is free to incorporate the 64-color changes... or not.  Color artists have the option to  publish in .vni ...or .pac ...or both.  It doesn't seem confusing to me.  It doesn't seem like anyone has centralized control.   Options are a good thing - what am I missing?

The VNI/PAL files were pulled down. Check out Cactus Canyon colorization comments.  In fairness to everyone with a stake, there may very well be issues in play that as a community we are not aware of. 
 

Edited May 22, 2022 by bushav

[LynnInDenver]

24 minutes ago, sudsy7 said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what this kerfuffle is all about.  Users have the option to use freezy... or lucky dll.  And freezy is free to incorporate the 64-color changes... or not.  Color artists have the option to  publish in .vni ...or .pac ...or both.  It doesn't seem confusing to me.  It doesn't seem like anyone has centralized control.   Options are a good thing - what am I missing?

 

A few authors have pulled the VNI/PAL files completely in favor of the PAC files. At least one I've seen so far is doing the "hybrid" approach of providing both in the update.

 

Freezy does do 64 bit VNI/PAL and has for a couple of months... the problem is that the PAC file is newer than that change and thus unsupported in Freezy's DLL, and Lucky1 decided to release his own added piece that slots in between PinMAME and Freezy's DLL to read that format, rather than work with Freezy to implement the needed changes directly in the DLL, and yet the PAC format has been advertised as a replacement for PAL/VNI. So we have the added piece, and the new file format, obstensibly because Lucky1 thought certain problems in Freezy are unfixable, or at least not fixable for him within the expected patch/submit process, and ignoring the license on Freezy's DLL and the existing weight of tutorials, as well as ensuring that people are forced to abandon Freezy going forward, rather than try to maintain two separate ways of doing things.

 

I've also heard the PAC format was floated as a way to avoid some "threat" to VPU related to colorization files, which I doubt in terms of if Bally/Williams decides the colorization files are a violation, packaging them up in a more encrypted format isn't going to change that threat, and worse, added encryption and closed source code might be used as a justification to add subpoenas and actual court filings in order to find out how it's actually being done, versus checking just to see if the implementation in, say, Freezy shows that colorization files include actual IP material. Or, it might just be the deciding factor of "clearly they have something to hide given this new format, we don't need to actually subpoena, just fire off the Cease and Desist now" and there goes colorized DMD downloads for 3/4 of the available tables.

[slippifishi]

Having now been made aware of more of the facts surrounding this situation which are not necessarily stated in the thread, I have regretfully made the decision to remove my own VNI/PAL files from VPUniverse. I am willing to and probably will upload them as PAC in future the if there is a desire for them, and because I want to continue to help support the PIN2DMD project, but given the feelings expressed so far in this thread, I will wait until emotions have settled down and/or an alternative approach may be devised.

 

Note that this is a conscious decision of my own making, I am not being coerced or threatened or being paid to removing them, and this is not a decision I wanted to make. I stand by my earlier statement that I started doing this for the vpin community, and I want to continue to support the vpin community.

 

To clarify, this is not a case of me trying to get my projects out of the public domain; once it's online, it's online, and I don't dispute that. I am sure the VNI/PAL files will still be available on a mega link or a google drive somewhere, maybe if you PM the right people they can send you in the right direction. For any of you who already downloaded the VNI/PAL then you are free to use them or share them or delete them as you wish, though I would kindly ask that you refrain from uploading them to VPUniverse.
 

[LynnInDenver]

8 minutes ago, slippifishi said:

Having now been made aware of more of the facts surrounding this situation which are not necessarily stated in the thread, I have regretfully made the decision to remove my own VNI/PAL files from VPUniverse. I am willing to and probably will upload them as PAC in future the if there is a desire for them, and because I want to continue to help support the PIN2DMD project, but given the feelings expressed so far in this thread, I will wait until emotions have settled down and/or an alternative approach may be devised.

 

May we ask what some of those facts are or are related to, or at least who those facts came from?