Taking a break; disappointed by the recent conduct and events in the VP community

[RabidUrko]

On 5/21/2025 at 7:49 AM, stevemontuno said:

I'd just like to say Personally what i witnessed was dog-piling towards the talented table developers and long time contributors ,,,and was pretty gobsmacked by the level of unappreciation toward the very people who are effectively letting us play their tables for free ,,,,, i'm quite new to posting on here due to recently finishing my cabinet and would of thought everybody would appreciate the fact they can come here and download a table in a few minutes and play a game that took probably hundreds of hours to code and wot not ,,i'd of thought people would be happy about that ...

 

i guess we all have different perspectives in life.

This.

I can tell that too many take peoples work for granted by the amount of downloads sometimes of a table/tool/backglass etc and you might see just a few people show respect for the work with a comment/review  (IE:- 100 downloads, 10 comments)

Edited May 22, 2025 by RabidUrko

[Dazz]

21 minutes ago, ArelyelKrele said:

I am / will be taking a break once I feel this thread is "resolved" (which I think we're close to that point now, but I don't feel the issue of rude admins has been resolved yet). I didn't want to post this forum thread and immediately scram without reading and addressing anything that came up in the thread. Otherwise I would have missed being clarified or making clarifications on any misunderstandings that happened.

My apologies, @ArelyelKrele but what exactly are you expecting to have "resolved" regarding "the issue of rude admins"? As far as I see it, there isn't anything to resolve. I am already going to add the AI notice to uploaded files when I get a chance. No one is forcing anyone to stay on this site or any other site on the intardwebs. It's called personalities... If you don't care for someone's personality, then just move along. You aren't going to force anyone to change their personality. Online, I know I can be a dick... I don't sugarcoat anything and I don't put up with shit either. I'll tell it like it is, to anyone, any day. Do I care if internet people like me? No, I do not...

However, myself and the other admins & mods, will bend over backwards for this hobby and our creators. I've spent hundreds of hours in creating content. I've spent many hours talking to manufactures. I've spent thousands of $$$, from my own pocket, to maintain this site for the past 10 years. I've been doxed. I've had a person contact my real job trying to get me fired. I've had lawyers come after me... What more do you want from an admin on a free hobby website? If you, or anyone else, don't like my personality... I'm really sorry, but I don't care. Feel free to take your ball and go home like a 2 year old. I'm sure VPForums would be much more welcoming. 🙄 

@Wildman has his personality... Yes, very rough around the edges but it's Wildman. The name "Wildman" should be some kind of clue. I've known him for almost 20 years of being in this hobby, nothing about him has changed and never will.  

The other mods of this site... Yup, they are all assholes as well and have their own personalities, but they all help keep this site running. 

On a real life personal note, I love and care for everyone. I would do almost anything for anyone if I had the capability to do so. I really do hope the best for you and that you are able to get your life back in order. I've been there before several times, most recently when I was going through a nasty divorce, kicked out of my house, removed from the lives of 2 children that I had helped raise, and was laid off from my job of 25 years. I turn 50 next week, I feel that I've wasted more than half my life by being in and putting myself in the wrong situations. Thankfully, I was able to surround myself with good friends and find some new hobbies (disc golf mainly) in which I met some of the most awesome friends. My point is.. if the personality of an admin on an online free hobby website is getting you so worked up, then perhaps you need to change your view in life for a little while.  

[citrus333]

3 hours ago, Dazz said:

My apologies, @ArelyelKrele but what exactly are you expecting to have "resolved" regarding "the issue of rude admins"? As far as I see it, there isn't anything to resolve. I am already going to add the AI notice to uploaded files when I get a chance. No one is forcing anyone to stay on this site or any other site on the intardwebs. It's called personalities... If you don't care for someone's personality, then just move along. You aren't going to force anyone to change their personality. Online, I know I can be a dick... I don't sugarcoat anything and I don't put up with shit either. I'll tell it like it is, to anyone, any day. Do I care if internet people like me? No, I do not...

However, myself and the other admins & mods, will bend over backwards for this hobby and our creators. I've spent hundreds of hours in creating content. I've spent many hours talking to manufactures. I've spent thousands of $$$, from my own pocket, to maintain this site for the past 10 years. I've been doxed. I've had a person contact my real job trying to get me fired. I've had lawyers come after me... What more do you want from an admin on a free hobby website? If you, or anyone else, don't like my personality... I'm really sorry, but I don't care. Feel free to take your ball and go home like a 2 year old. I'm sure VPForums would be much more welcoming. 🙄 

@Wildman has his personality... Yes, very rough around the edges but it's Wildman. The name "Wildman" should be some kind of clue. I've known him for almost 20 years of being in this hobby, nothing about him has changed and never will.  

The other mods of this site... Yup, they are all assholes as well and have their own personalities, but they all help keep this site running. 

On a real life personal note, I love and care for everyone. I would do almost anything for anyone if I had the capability to do so. I really do hope the best for you and that you are able to get your life back in order. I've been there before several times, most recently when I was going through a nasty divorce, kicked out of my house, removed from the lives of 2 children that I had helped raise, and was laid off from my job of 25 years. I turn 50 next week, I feel that I've wasted more than half my life by being in and putting myself in the wrong situations. Thankfully, I was able to surround myself with good friends and find some new hobbies (disc golf mainly) in which I met some of the most awesome friends. My point is.. if the personality of an admin on an online free hobby website is getting you so worked up, then perhaps you need to change your view in life for a little while.  

Thanks for the autobiography — genuinely, I don’t doubt your commitment to the site or the hobby. But wearing 'I’m just a dick online' as a badge of honor doesn’t excuse treating community members with open contempt.

Saying 'this is just my personality' doesn’t magically make dismissiveness okay — especially when you're in a position of authority. If you and the rest of the mod team are proud of being known as assholes, maybe it’s worth asking what kind of community you’re trying to build. Because people don’t leave because of personalities — they leave because they’re tired of being spoken down to and ignored.

No one’s asking for a personality transplant. Just a little self-awareness and the understanding that respect isn’t a threat to your honesty — it’s what keeps people coming back.
 

When members raise concerns about admin behavior, brushing them off or mocking them doesn't solve anything. It just drives people away.  We're asking for basic respect and the kind of conduct that sets the tone for the rest of the community. That shouldn’t be too much to expect from someone representing the site.  Saying things like “take your ball and go home like a 2 year old” isn’t just rough around the edges — it's dismissive, condescending, and frankly unprofessional for someone in a position of authority.

 

Quote

On a real life personal note, I love and care for everyone. I would do almost anything for anyone if I had the capability to do so. I really do hope the best for you and that you are able to get your life back in order.

Jeez that's some bipolar ass whiplash I'm getting from the first part of the post and this.
 

Quote

I've been there before several times, most recently when I was going through a nasty divorce, kicked out of my house, removed from the lives of 2 children that I had helped raise, and was laid off from my job of 25 years.

Yeah... I think I can see why.

Edited May 23, 2025 by citrus333

[Dazz]

14 minutes ago, citrus333 said:

Thanks for the autobiography — genuinely, I don’t doubt your commitment to the site or the hobby. But wearing 'I’m just a dick online' as a badge of honor doesn’t excuse treating community members with open contempt.

Saying 'this is just my personality' doesn’t magically make dismissiveness okay — especially when you're in a position of authority. If you and the rest of the mod team are proud of being known as assholes, maybe it’s worth asking what kind of community you’re trying to build. Because people don’t leave because of personalities — they leave because they’re tired of being spoken down to and ignored.

No one’s asking for a personality transplant. Just a little self-awareness and the understanding that respect isn’t a threat to your honesty — it’s what keeps people coming back.

 

Yeah... I think I can see why.

You have no f***ing clue what I had to endure during a 20 year marriage. I'd never wish it upon anyone. If this were another site, you'd be banned already.

Going back and seeing everything you've ever posted... Every single one of your posts have been nothing but negativity. Negativity towards our authors, negative towards uploaded files, absolutely nothing positive whatsoever. You've have not contributed a single positive post, or anything positive at all to this community or hobby in general.

Why should I give a damn about what YOU have to say or think? 

[robertms]

39 minutes ago, Dazz said:

Every single one of your posts have been nothing but negativity. Negativity towards our authors, negative towards uploaded files, absolutely nothing positive whatsoever. You've have not contributed a single positive post, or anything positive at all to this community or hobby in general.

 

Isn't that a definition of a troll? If anyone is leaving this site it's because of reading this guy's commentary 🤮

[RabidUrko]

.

Edited May 23, 2025 by RabidUrko

[ArelyelKrele]

@Dazz I've already stated what needs resolved in this thread (although you weren't my primary concern; it was HauntFreaks if I recall correctly [EDIT: It is not him; I do not recall correctly]). And the issue still persists and, if anything, is even more prominent / concerning now given your recent replies.

 

However, I see you are not going to change your position, and neither will I. You will continue to believe it is okay for staff to demonstrate rude and disrespectful behavior when they feel it is justified. And I will feel it is never justified for staff to be rude because they represent the site.

 

We agree to disagree at this point. But I'm not going back over to VPF; they have their own BS too, and their staff is at least just as rude as what I've seen here. Plus I'm not willing to deal with Noah's "everything can be MODded" policy etc.

At this point, I'm considering either leaving the community all-together (as there is no other place to go), taking a long break (most likely what I'll do), or helping start a new site that has different principles from both VPF and VPU which can give the community yet another choice if it so happens to align more with their values (some members prefer freedom, and you have VPF and VPU for that... while others prefer higher moderation standards, which maybe a new site can provide).

Edited May 23, 2025 by ArelyelKrele

[Dazz]

41 minutes ago, ArelyelKrele said:

@Dazz I've already stated what needs resolved in this thread (although you weren't my primary concern; it was HauntFreaks if I recall correctly). And the issue still persists and, if anything, is even more prominent / concerning now given your recent replies.

 

However, I see you are not going to change your position, and neither will I. You will continue to believe it is okay for staff to demonstrate rude and disrespectful behavior when they feel it is justified. And I will feel it is never justified for staff to be rude because they represent the site.

 

We agree to disagree at this point. But I'm not going back over to VPF; they have their own BS too, and their staff is at least just as rude as what I've seen here. Plus I'm not willing to deal with Noah's "everything can be MODded" policy etc.

At this point, I'm considering either leaving the community all-together (as there is no other place to go), taking a long break (most likely what I'll do), or helping start a new site that has different principles from both VPF and VPU which can give the community yet another choice if it so happens to align more with their values (some members prefer freedom, and you have VPF and VPU for that... while others prefer higher moderation standards, which maybe a new site can provide).

I have no clue what you are talking about in regards to HauntFreaks... All I know is that he helps out with file approvals and is one freaking talented artist. Other than that I've not really heard or seen anything serious. Honestly, for the most part the staff here will stay out of most shit unless something serious is going on. It takes a LOT to get me to this point. Over the last month, we've had more BS reports on comments, reviews, and files than we have in over 10 years. It takes a lot for me to jump in and say anything. This AI bullshit, non-stop trolling posts, downvoting because of the use of AI, and getting tons of reports from members on BS stuff just set me off.  It's not often that admins/mods speak out. We don't over-moderate this site, but evidently when we do chime in people get their feelings all butt hurt...   

Either you want mods/admins around or you don't... We aren't going to deny anyone that wants to release their creation. Whether using Ai or not. It's up to the users to decide if they want to support and download it or not. We are not going to regulate content unless it is 100% warranted. 

Hell, 98% of the people that come to this site and VPF, never even visit the forums. I don't blame them, I stay away from forums on most sites as well. The whole forum structure over the whole internet is dying. This is why I have an active project ongoing and working towards a major goal that will take things to a new level. Forums? Where we're going... we don't need no forums.

@ArelyelKrele I've never had any issues with you. I don't have issues with really anyone at at all. I have no knowledge of anything that's taken place with any of the mods, as I am not able to watch or moderate every single piece of content. I vaguely recall something, but I've totally forgotten what it even was. I do recall asking the mods to take it easier and watch their comments, but I don't recall a specific incident. If I did, my ADHD is extremely bad and definitely to blame... If I see a squirrel right now, I'm gonna chase it.

[ArelyelKrele]

@Dazz It may be my memory isn't serving me well; someone else mentioned HauntFreaks to me (EDIT: he was mentioned to me, but he's not whom I was trying to recall). The admin in question is in the restricted thread from Citrus about AI. I apologize if I ended up mentioning the wrong admin. I probably should have reported it when I had the chance so they would be flagged for you, but I didn't think to.

 

7 hours ago, Dazz said:

We don't over-moderate this site, but evidently when we do chime in people get their feelings all butt hurt... 

I will say from experience being staff on other sites and communities, unfortunately this will always happen. You gotta stick to your guns and what you believe are the core values for the community. People don't like getting corrected / criticized, period, whether it's by staff or by law enforcement or anything. We are egotistical creatures and don't like being wrong, much less admitting to it. I think you're doing a good job sticking to the core values of VPU, even if I don't agree with a few of them. You believe that a site (and its staff) should have more freedom of speech than I believe it should. And that's all okay. Everyone has the freedom to run their community how they run it just like members have the freedom to choose which community they want to participate in (and also have the freedom to criticize respectfully). I think it's good we have choices, but I also think maybe there is a niche that needs filled. Over-moderation is not a good thing, I agree. But so is under-moderation. While I'm not going to specifically say VPF and VPU are under-moderated, I think maybe some members might prefer a different style of moderation, evident by what Lynn and Citrus have mentioned (and potentially others).

 

But no one site can appeal to everyone, thus why we have multiple sites.

 

7 hours ago, Dazz said:

Either you want mods/admins around or you don't... We aren't going to deny anyone that wants to release their creation. Whether using Ai or not. It's up to the users to decide if they want to support and download it or not. We are not going to regulate content unless it is 100% warranted. 

I get that. By moderation standards, I mainly meant staff conduct, slightly tighter moderation of discussions and reviews (maybe instead of a single box for a review, there is a small form where people are asked to list the good things and then list their criticisms, along with a few different criteria for rating), and more tools to properly cite what should be cited (such as assets and also linking to originals when uploading a MOD). I don't mean outright rejecting certain content. I was also thinking of running something completely different from IPB if I go this route, so it's a different platform as well from VPF and VPU which will provide something unique. Likely Open Source as well so the community can contribute to site development. These are all just floating ideas. Unfortunately it is unlikely I can act on them because, as you're well aware, running a VP site (especially if it includes downloads) will require several TBs of space and a lot of bandwidth. While I do have a server, it only has 1 TB I could allocate to such site, which isn't enough. And I don't currently have the financial means to get a larger one.

 

7 hours ago, Dazz said:

I've never had any issues with you. I don't have issues with really anyone at at all. I have no knowledge of anything that's taken place with any of the mods, as I am not able to watch or moderate every single piece of content. I vaguely recall something, but I've totally forgotten what it even was. I do recall asking the mods to take it easier and watch their comments, but I don't recall a specific incident. If I did, my ADHD is extremely bad and definitely to blame... If I see a squirrel right now, I'm gonna chase it.

Understood. You probably have a lot going on ATM and dealing with the VPU site / software itself. It's in that restricted thread if you wish to take a look. Again, I wish I reported the specific posts, but it slipped my mind.

Edited May 23, 2025 by ArelyelKrele

[hauntfreaks]

wait what the fuck did I do??....LOL   noob kooks....LOL

[PopArt71]

(English isn't my native language, please keep that in mind)

 

Somehow I got a notification on this thread and I started reading it. Needless to say it made me very sad.

 

As someone who got into this hobby a little over a year ago (after playing atgames stock tables for a while, bleh) I can say from the bottom of my heart that I just LOVE the content I am able to find here and can't thank the creators enough for all the tables I am enjoying every single day.

For me it's an escape back to the 80's and 90's and relive the good old times I had as a teenager. Now the world is on fire, it gives me my much needed relaxation after a long day of work.

 

So I really can't understand the negativity and shit throwing what is going on right now. I thought we were here to enjoy this hobby together (we ALL love pinball, right?)  and with all that is going on in the world right now, please let this be a place of like-minded people and let's just ignore the trolls and other negativity. We can do without.

 

So, to the content creators of this site like Balutito, Bord, Flupper, HauntFreaks (I have every single one of your backglasses), Joe Picasso, LoadedWeapon, Tasy Wasps, Team Tuga, Uncle Paulie, VPW, Wildman and many, many, many others I would like to say; 

 

A BIG THANK YOU!

 

Please keep on creating (I don't give a shit if it's with or without the help of AI) and please keep sharing it with the majority of us who actually appreciate what y'all doing.

 

Peace.

 

Edited May 23, 2025 by PopArt71

[ArelyelKrele]

4 hours ago, hauntfreaks said:

wait what the fuck did I do??....LOL   noob kooks....LOL

LOL sorry, excuse me. I don't think you're the one after-all I was trying to recall from the other thread which I can't access. It was an admin, but I don't remember who. And can't go back and look myself. I really should shut up and not name-drop without evidence.

 

@PopArt71 I agree. Creators make some dang good tables for everyone to enjoy from the bottom of their heart which largely does not get enough appreciation. And while ignoring trolls is easy to do, I wish it were easy here, but there were multiple people and a staff member involved. So it's a very concerning issue (IMO).

Edited May 23, 2025 by ArelyelKrele

[citrus333]

1 hour ago, PopArt71 said:

(English isn't my native language, please keep that in mind)

 

Somehow I got a notification on this thread and I started reading it. Needless to say it made me very sad.

 

As someone who got into this hobby a little over a year ago (after playing atgames stock tables for a while, bleh) I can say from the bottom of my heart that I just LOVE the content I am able to find here and can't thank the creators enough for all the tables I am enjoying every single day.

For me it's an escape back to the 80's and 90's and relive the good old times I had as a teenager. Now the world is on fire, it gives me my much needed relaxation after a long day of work.

 

So I really can't understand the negativity and shit throwing what is going on right now. I thought we were here to enjoy this hobby together (we ALL love pinball, right?)  and with all that is going on in the world right now, please let this be a place of like-minded people and let's just ignore the trolls and other negativity. We can do without.

 

So, to the content creators of this site like Balutito, Bord, Flupper, HauntFreaks (I have every single one of your backglasses), Joe Picasso, LoadedWeapon, Tasy Wasps, Team Tuga, Uncle Paulie, VPW, Wildman and many, many, many others I would like to say; 

 

A BIG THANK YOU!

 

Please keep on creating (I don't give a shit if it's with or without the help of AI) and please keep sharing it with the majority of us who actually appreciate what y'all doing.

 

Peace.

 

Exactly, all of us who just use this as a hobby and love for pinball are extremely appreciative for what the creators do.  Which is why it is sad that admin like Dazz and others are literally driving creators away with their behavior, actively making this hobby worse than it could be.

[citrus333]

10 hours ago, Dazz said:

You have no f***ing clue what I had to endure during a 20 year marriage. I'd never wish it upon anyone. If this were another site, you'd be banned already.

Going back and seeing everything you've ever posted... Every single one of your posts have been nothing but negativity. Negativity towards our authors, negative towards uploaded files, absolutely nothing positive whatsoever. You've have not contributed a single positive post, or anything positive at all to this community or hobby in general.

Why should I give a damn about what YOU have to say or think? 

Oh we got a wannabe internet tough guy over here.  Look who can dish out being an asshole but is just a soft little bitch and can't take people being an asshole to him.  This is the energy you put out, yet you're surprised when people respond with the same energy.  Fucking lmao.

 

Quote

Every single one of your posts have been nothing but negativity. Negativity towards our authors, negative towards uploaded files, absolutely nothing positive whatsoever. You've have not contributed a single positive post, or anything positive at all to this community or hobby in general.

That’s simply not true — and it’s easy to verify. You’re welcome to browse my posts or read through my reviews. You’ll find that I’ve consistently made an effort to be positive and engage in civil conversation. In fact, I’ve praised creators, acknowledged respectful members, and even apologized when I felt I stepped out of line.

The negativity only really started showing up when you and a few others came in swinging, and now you seem shocked that people don’t respond to that with a smile. It’s a bit rich to act like I’m the problem when the record shows otherwise. If you’re going to push a narrative, at least try to make it a believable one.

 

Quote

Isn't that a definition of a troll? If anyone is leaving this site it's because of reading this guy's commentary 🤮

LynnInDenver - "Yeah, I have also decided to cease any and all VPX development I was planning with a homebrew that I wanted to do as both a physical pin and a virtual pin, it is now going to be only a physical pin. This has also come as part of a rough week at home for me, witnessing the behavior of an admin and a contributor during that time has soured me greatly on contributing any further."

 

Yep, definitely looks like they said I'm the problem and not the admin and other contributors.

Edited May 23, 2025 by citrus333

[stevemontuno]

This reminds me of that scene in the Matrix when he takes the red pill and touches the mirror.

[Rappelbox]

I've been long enough in this hobby to see lots of people come and go... you're not the first and you won't be the last.
See: 99% of the people in here do everything as hobby, in their spare time, for free, because they love what they do.

The site is run as an hobby of Dazz, Hauntfreaks, vpw, blblabla, they all to it as a hobby and for "likes" and "thumbsup" 

If someone shows up and tells them the do sh*t ai stuff they get upset or p*ssed. Of course, no one likes to get dissed, no matter if other contributor, random visitor or noob.

You'd be lying if you told us different!

hell yes, some are little princesses, but guess what?! Who cares? those content providers do one very important thing: they provide something for all the community wether they like 'em or not. they don't say "you didn't like my last contribution, please do not use my current stuff!".

You get the point? Although i understand your standpoint, you alone with your opinion won't change anyones behaviour to your liking.

especially not with being rude, downvote posts as your standard. you'll get exactly the opposite result. people won't respect you and won't listen to you. All you receive is a negative effect.

Next time you raise your concern, that are indeed legit to a certain point, you should concider your wording and how you could improve the experience for everyone instead of nitpick and dramatically overreact.

 

lot's of people left the scene over the years for their personal reason, and thats ok.

i'm pretty sure everyone is welcome on their 2nd visit and usually no matter of the reason why he/she left.

 

EDIT:

 

@citrus333 i'm pretty sure some lines from @PopArt71 were targeted towards you and @ArelyelKrele read again and think about it.
like i said before, irony and sarcasm and some blinking  is hard to guess without face-to-face action

 

Edited May 23, 2025 by Rappelbox

[Dazz]

4 hours ago, citrus333 said:

That’s simply not true — and it’s easy to verify. You’re welcome to browse my posts or read through my reviews. You’ll find that I’ve consistently made an effort to be positive and engage in civil conversation. In fact, I’ve praised creators, acknowledged respectful members, and even apologized when I felt I stepped out of line.

The negativity only really started showing up when you and a few others came in swinging, and now you seem shocked that people don’t respond to that with a smile. It’s a bit rich to act like I’m the problem when the record shows otherwise. If you’re going to push a narrative, at least try to make it a believable one.
 

Yep, definitely looks like they said I'm the problem and not the admin and other contributors.

Let's let others determine that... Here is a link to everything you've ever posted. https://vpuniverse.com/profile/69793-citrus333/content/page/2/?all_activity=1 Anyone can see for themselves what all you have posted. 

As of right now, you have posted 40 total pieces of posted content. 26 of those posts are between 2 threads, this thread and your "Using AI generated images for the art for tables is getting out of control" thread that was auto-moderated. The other posts/content have been 4 1-star reviews, where the comments are "due to the use of AI images". 1 edited/removed post, looks like it was originally a negative post, but you edited the content to -removed. 4 posts on broken / complaints on a table and a lone 5-star, but still complaining about the use of AI images. 2 more 1-star reviews that have been auto-moderated out due to the number of reports from other users. In those 40 pieces, perhaps only 2 of those posts have really anything constructive or even normal content. All of this is just with your current account, not taking into consideration the other accounts that you have posted from...
 

9 hours ago, hauntfreaks said:

wait what the fuck did I do??....LOL   noob kooks....LOL

Yeah, I have no clue what you did... I know @Wildman made some comments that were a little un-professional, but nothing too far out there for him. Those evidently set people off, but I talked to him about that already.  Yes, I've been a little un-professional in these 2 threads as well. Being called out by someone with very little experience in this hobby, no contributions, and very little positive feedback... I took that as a personal attack. 

Since the very beginning of this site, I have always listened to every person that has made a suggestion for the site. Many user suggestions have been implemented, some still pending, and some that are not currently possible without deeper development. I am very reasonable when it comes to how things work on the site. If someone has a solution, option, or something that could be done better I'll hear them out. Honestly a simple, PM to me requesting the feature to have an AI use disclosure option would have gone over much much smoother and without any issues. BUT to call out admin/mods for allowing the use of AI images... definitely the wrong way to introduce yourself to the hobby. I do see where people are coming from with the use of AI and reasons for disclosure and I will be adding a disclosure option on the uploads. Unfortunately, this is very time consuming and will not happen immediately. Adding this will setback other development and things that I'm working on. 

I'll ensure that the staff and admins remember to be "professional"... We'd expect the same in return from any members. Leaving 1 star reviews and nasty comments on a release simply because your dislike of AI images, is not any kind of valid or constructive feedback. We have an auto-moderation system in place, and I will be adjusting those numbers so it kicks in at a more reasonable pace.

BTW - How many more accounts are you going to create just to comment about Ai images?  You have read the rules, and agreed to, in regards to multiple accounts. 

[puerto]

I can't believe that this conversation is still going on and that so many many members have to put so much time to explain their thoughts on it .. shows how much the members care.

 

Why would I (just a member) have the right to decide what should happen on this site ? Yes, I can share my thoughts , but then it's time to move one, and do something else.

 

If a table isn't to my liking, then I just say no thanks and check another one. No every developer has the same amount of experience, and they need to do tables to improve their skills.

 

Respect

[ArelyelKrele]

3 hours ago, Rappelbox said:

@citrus333 i'm pretty sure some lines from @PopArt71 were targeted towards you and @ArelyelKrele read again and think about it.
like i said before, irony and sarcasm and some blinking  is hard to guess without face-to-face action

It is hard for me to pick up sarcasm online. I am very appreciative of what people contribute to the community. My standard isn't down-voting everything unlike a few others (you may have been directing that at Citrus and not me... as per Dazz's later reply / call-out). However, I will admit I don't leave reviews often enough to show said appreciation (then again, I also don't download tables that often either as I don't have much time for VPX).

 

3 hours ago, Dazz said:

Yeah, I have no clue what you did... I know @Wildman made some comments that were a little un-professional, but nothing too far out there for him. Those evidently set people off, but I talked to him about that already.  Yes, I've been a little un-professional in these 2 threads as well. Being called out by someone with very little experience in this hobby, no contributions, and very little positive feedback... I took that as a personal attack.

He didn't do anything TMK; I was mistaking him for Wildman (probably) since another member mentioned to me HauntFreaks was being rude at some point (I thought they too were referring to the auto-modded thread, but maybe they weren't). Let's just say my head got confused / scrambled especially since I can't confirm for myself anymore.

 

3 hours ago, Dazz said:

Adding this will setback other development and things that I'm working on. 

Please don't stress yourself on it since we can just plug "AI" as a source on the table info for the time being (a feature is nice, but so long as the disclosure of AI anywhere on the download sources / description is required when AI is used, it's good enough IMO). That is unless you feel it is important enough to set other things back for it. I do appreciate what you are doing nonetheless.

 

I'm assuming the rest of your reply is directed at citrus, so I won't comment on those.
 

31 minutes ago, puerto said:

I can't believe that this conversation is still going on and that so many many members have to put so much time to explain their thoughts on it .. shows how much the members care.

 

Why would I (just a member) have the right to decide what should happen on this site ? Yes, I can share my thoughts , but then it's time to move one, and do something else.

You are right; a lot of people here, including myself, care a lot. I think Dazz especially has been working hard on VPU to make it the best experience possible. Despite everything, IMO, VPU still aligns best with what I see as the best core values for the VP community, even though I may disagree with a few things. And I know Dazz will actually hear us out in a rational way, something I don't have the same faith in with Noah at VPF or the staff at most other VP sites. That's why I'm still talking and wanting to reach a consensus.

 

I think at this point though, everything I brought up in my initial post has been resolved. Dazz had a discussion with the staff. He understands the importance of table authors disclosing AI and will work in the future to make a feature for that. And he is dealing with other trouble-makers. So I greatly appreciate it Dazz. I'm going to un-follow this topic at this point as there is nothing more for me to discuss. I still need a break, if anything just to get my tish together in life. But I'm taking the break with a more positive outlook than before. If there is anything you (anyone) are certain is important for me to know or to ask me, please mention me.

Edited May 23, 2025 by ArelyelKrele

[RabidUrko]

13 hours ago, citrus333 said:

Exactly, all of us who just use this as a hobby and love for pinball are extremely appreciative for what the creators do.  Which is why it is sad that admin like Dazz and others are literally driving creators away with their behavior, actively making this hobby worse than it could be.

How about you try making some positive posts , that might help things, most of yours seem to be negative  of the 40 posts you have made throughout the forum and/or knocking something.

 

[deadmanworking]

Guys, I love this thread. While I don't appreciate the sulkingly negative attitude of citrus' it does feel like this kind of attack out of the blue has brought some aspect of the true spirit of the community to the surface. I wouldn't have expected this discussion becoming so personal but I'm glad it did, after all it's the people and their interaction (sometimes positive, sometimes negative) that makes a forum like this a real community and you can feel how most of the members chiming in fervently care about this hobby we share. 

 

I've joined less then a year ago after 15 years with a real machine, and in the last 6 months I was able to build my own minicab without having any previous skills just by using the information provided by this forum and Youtube - and then populate it with hundreds of tables and backglasses for absolutely free! Something that would have been much harder 10 years ago and I certainly wouldn't have undertaken that project then. So 2025 is such a great point for Virtual Pinball where it's become more accessible and at the same time the level of realism is reaching incredible levels. We're all blessed to have the insane work of all the great creators over the years and the combined intelligence of people on the forum helping out each other at our fingertips. And I'm very thankful to be have become part of this journey. 

 

So (in my opinion) no need to moderate or regulate your behaviour and personality, it makes this community feel alive and I'm here for it. 

High five 🙏

Edited May 24, 2025 by deadmanworking

[Tron]

Was looking at the forum for the first time for reading to pass some time...wow.  Anyways, it did bring to light something that I am guilty of and that is not leaving a proper thank you for downloading an incredible table.  I consider myself picky and will make it a habit to say at least thank you in the future, I believe that's only fair for something that is free and absolutely entertaining.  

 

Second, not sure how I feel about AI or if I even care if an author used it.  Does it make the table any less fun?  I seriously doubt it and it really doesn't change how its played.  Graphics are just part of the table, I think we all know all the different aspects and parts that make it up and AI does not play into that.  So I'll d/l a table if I like it, AI or no AI and still give my thanks to the creator(s).

[okerra]

Wow, I think this thread has gone too far (for them to complain about authoritarian moderators...). I personally would have banned them days ago. My native language isn't English either, but here in Spain we say it's very easy to watch the bullfight from the sidelines. Of course, it's not easy to manage everything and please everyone; in fact, you shouldn't please everyone. I fully support the site moderators.

[Anthias]

On 5/21/2025 at 5:03 PM, citrus333 said:

Here's the difference, I was rude to Anthias.  I apologized and moved on to try and have a civil discussion about the topic.  Then long time creators and admin came in and said newbies are not allowed to have opinions here, and that unless you have dozens of tables you've made for this site then you're a freeloader who isn't welcome here.  Seeing as you have no content that includes you, the admin here don't want you here because you're new and haven't created anything.

 

I called out 2 creators, and apologized for being overly rude to both.  There was no dog-pilling on talented table developers and long time contributors.

It's not a different perspective.  I think you were missing the full picture.

For the record I saw and appreciated how you adjusted your stance and argument in that thread and the reviews. The thread in question was morphing into a solid discussion in large part thanks to your input. Thank you for shifting to accommodate the non emotional discussion of a relevant and topical issues within the community. Hopefully as a whole we can move forward in a positive manner to the benefit of creators, moderators and players alike.

Edited May 30, 2025 by Anthias

[ArelyelKrele]

On 5/29/2025 at 8:15 PM, okerra said:

Wow, I think this thread has gone too far (for them to complain about authoritarian moderators...). I personally would have banned them days ago.

I'm not sure whom you're referring to. I'm assuming me since I brought up the concerns about staff behavior. I wasn't complaining about authoritarian moderators (mods who ban / discipline anyone for any little thing; that doesn't happen here, thankfully... although there was a mix-up at first where I thought the staff were silencing the discussion, but turns out it was because of the number of reports on that thread auto-hiding it). I was complaining about rude staff (who were insulting members). But according to Dazz, it's been addressed, so I don't really have anything more to say about it. If you weren't speaking to me however, then please disregard me. Otherwise, I'd have to disagree and say rather it's quite authoritarian to suggest those who express concerns about staff behavior be banned.

 

On 5/29/2025 at 3:00 AM, Tron said:

Was looking at the forum for the first time for reading to pass some time...wow.  Anyways, it did bring to light something that I am guilty of and that is not leaving a proper thank you for downloading an incredible table.  I consider myself picky and will make it a habit to say at least thank you in the future, I believe that's only fair for something that is free and absolutely entertaining.  

I'm guilty of this as well and will be making a better effort when I get back into pinball to do the same. I need to do more of my thorough reviews and critiques again since people have said they seem helpful. Sadly I've only ever done maybe 6 of them.

Edited June 1, 2025 by ArelyelKrele