PuP table config is time consuming & difficult. Could be a lot easier? Interested in everyone thoughts...

[Livin]

@NailBuster intent of this thread is to have a discussion on if and how PuP table setup/config and maintenance could be quicker and easier all around. I'm new to VPx and PuP and finiding it tedious, time consuming not only to find and DL the proper files, but then to get them loaded into PuP.  I have a 35 year career in computer hardware/software/systems design and tech in general (Home Automation, Home theater, electrical engineering, mechanical design, etc)

 

With my recent time with PuP, it seems that there could be a common template put in place that allowed PuP to auto populate the needed fields/config based on that - making things literally 100x faster and adding multiple other user benefits.

 

For instance, I suggest...

1. each table has a separate folder; 1 table per folder containing all related files (images, video, audio, scripts, ROM, etc)
   1. Benefits = quickly know what tables you have by simply looking at the folder list, update tables quickly/easily, simple to add/remove/cleanup content, etc
2. simple uniform naming convention. each option in PuP is numbered (playfield loading image, backglass video, etc). Then we simply add a prefix of the # to the file and PuP autoloads that file for the associated field
   1. example file name... 001_AddamsFamG5K.mp4
   2. Benefits  =  quick adds/changes/etc to what is pulled in for each table. By default this method will numerically order the files in the folder, this a user can quickly see what files are assigned, or which (#s) are missing. It sill allows you to have as many other files in the folder for later use, backup, etc without cluttering any other folder, still keeps everything for that table together, and requires 100x less cleanup if you decide to remove stuff.
   3. This also does not change the original name of the files other than adding the prefix so its still easily recognizable and easily searched on by name if needed.
3. The above two items allow for creation of Media Packs to be easily shared and installed.

[Tikimaster]

1 hour ago, Livin said:

each table has a separate folder;

to have this you must:
change the structure of files within vpx
change the structure of files within VPinMame
change the structure of files of freezy/lucky
change a lot in every frontend
same for every plugin
And at the same time, you have to be sure that every system of every user who does not want to change something is still working. For all of the programms a cab is using.
Have fun with it! 🤡 I fear its not possible to do such a "rearrange" everything. To many different programms and systems, developed by to many ppl.

[Livin]

2 hours ago, Retsamikit said:

to have this you must:
change the structure of files within vpx
change the structure of files within VPinMame
change the structure of files of freezy/lucky
change a lot in every frontend
same for every plugin
And at the same time, you have to be sure that every system of every user who does not want to change something is still working. For all of the programms a cab is using.
Have fun with it! 🤡 I fear its not possible to do such a "rearrange" everything. To many different programms and systems, developed by to many ppl.

 

Doesn't PuP 'Media Manager' (screenshot) assign the media files? I'm suggesting to automate this by creating a standard format (single folder w/ file name prefix) where no one would ever need to go to that screen - ever... PuP is told to look in a parent folder (ex: "MediaPacks") and as long as there exists a sub-folder name with same name as the table... PuP auto assigns the media. No more need to manually assign using a super-slow one-at-a-time-method for each separate screen image, video, audio, etc.

 

.

[Tikimaster]

I don´t use Popper.

 

[Livin]

6 hours ago, Retsamikit said:

I don´t use Popper.

 

so are you thread crapping or are you lost?   You are posting about a topic you know nothing about, in a thread specific to an app you dont use. please stay in your lane.

[Wylte]

34 minutes ago, Livin said:

so are you thread crapping or are you lost?   You are posting about a topic you know nothing about, in a thread specific to an app you dont use. please stay in your lane.

He's saying that not everyone uses Popper, so reorganizing the ROM & Table files folder structures of VPX and the related (necessary) software around it doesn't make sense.  It would be possible to do so, but as stated would need coordinated rewriting of the other programs and backwards compatibility to the current structure.

 

7 hours ago, Livin said:

Doesn't PuP 'Media Manager' (screenshot) assign the media files? I'm suggesting to automate this by creating a standard format (single folder w/ file name prefix) where no one would ever need to go to that screen - ever... PuP is told to look in a parent folder (ex: "MediaPacks") and as long as there exists a sub-folder name with same name as the table... PuP auto assigns the media. No more need to manually assign using a super-slow one-at-a-time-method for each separate screen image, video, audio, etc.

That's a suggestion for the PinUP devs (Nailbuster) specifically.  I don't use Popper either, so I can't get into what the current options are for batch installation or automation scripts.

 

And I think Ed209's answer to you on VPC Discord last week addressed why "Media Packs" are a tricky thing in VP

[Tikimaster]

5 hours ago, Livin said:

are you thread crapping or are you lost?

you should consider being a little more friendly and polite. I know how it feels when my brilliant ideas turn out to be bullshit. But that is no reason to be aggressive. thankyou.

[Livin]

@Wylte thats fine but the forum section and my thread is about Popper... not asking to change anything in VPx.

I dont think Media Packs are tricky... all other mod communities (Mame, etc) use them. I do systems design, and this 'system' of how to obtain and use the free content is ridiculously over complex for no reason/benefit to anyone... it just makes it tedious and difficult and confusing. the 'non-free' community has systems that are 1000x more organized and that is not even legal, in the least. providing free content is legal! But until people want to make it easier for everyone (vets and noobs) it will never change.

 

@Retsamikit  I'm totally friendly. It looked likes you posted in my thread, into a sub-forum specific to Popper :an app you dont know or use?  That clearly looks like thread crapping. My post IS about Popper... this forum section IS about Popper

for reference, this is the forum header...

 

 

... note that VPx does not show up anywhere... but PuP appears 3 times.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Livin

[Wylte]

4 hours ago, Livin said:

thats fine but the forum section and my thread is about Popper... not asking to change anything in VPx.

You mentioned table and ROM files, which are outside the domain of Popper, that's all.

 

4 hours ago, Livin said:

I dont think Media Packs are tricky... all other mod communities (Mame, etc) use them. I do systems design, and this 'system' of how to obtain and use the free content is ridiculously over complex for no reason/benefit to anyone... it just makes it tedious and difficult and confusing. the 'non-free' community has systems that are 1000x more organized and that is not even legal, in the least. providing free content is legal!

It's not just about the legality, it's also about the wishes of the authors.  Generalizing and speaking for others, we like to have the more personal interaction of seeing likes and comments, and sometimes reviews, directly on our work.  It's a community of individuals, not just faceless numbers that like the same thing.  You lose that when it's packed up with a bunch of random files and downloaded from somewhere else.

 

Table by Wylte (earlier from 32A), backglass from Wildman, topper by RetroRitchie, wheel by davadruix.

Names that you get to know and decide if you want to follow their work; people you can interact with.

[Livin]

How are Tables and ROM files "outside the domain of popper"?  Popper is a front-end and config tool made ONLY to configure the use of Tables (which includes ALL things to get tables running, images, music, rom files, etc).

 

Making install and config of tables easier would not affect "more personal interaction". With all respect I cant tell if you are purposefully arguing just to argue, or are in a sub-forum for app you dont use, or maybe understand, and dont really get what I'm saying. There is a specific place in this site to post tables and comments from users... no reason to change that. My post has nothing, at all even close, to do with that. 

 

The simple fact is with very little effort in Popper it could be 100x easier for everyone to install and configure tables - and know the files are correct. I loaded 15 tables and 11 of them have issues with the ROM, or missing backglass, or missing music, etc... and most had PuP Packs the rest had directb2s files.

 

 

[Wylte]

3 hours ago, Livin said:

How are Tables and ROM files "outside the domain of popper"?  Popper is a front-end and config tool made ONLY to configure the use of Tables (which includes ALL things to get tables running, images, music, rom files, etc).

Popper is a frontend and config tool, in service to the main programs.  There are at least 4 others, and some people don't use a frontend at all (hi).  The file locations matter more to the primary programs than Popper, so they would need changing first.

3 hours ago, Livin said:

Making install and config of tables easier would not affect "more personal interaction".

Packs literally skip the step where you visit the author's page, to the point where you don't need to know who made what at all.

3 hours ago, Livin said:

With all respect I cant tell if you are purposefully arguing just to argue

I'm responding to things that are relevant to my interests, point by point.  It's what I do.

3 hours ago, Livin said:

in a sub-forum for app you dont use, or maybe understand

I have it, but no, I don't regularly use it so I'm not familiar enough with the specifics of its functions to discuss them.  That's why I'm sticking to discussing the suggested changes to things that go beyond Popper.

3 hours ago, Livin said:

and dont really get what I'm saying

Always a possibility, which is why I try to at least be very clear and calm on my end.

3 hours ago, Livin said:

There is a specific place in this site to post tables and comments from users... no reason to change that. My post has nothing, at all even close, to do with that

Except for putting them in packs so you don't have to visit them?  Honestly if I've got that wrong, please clarify, but that's what I'm drawing from what you've written here and on VPC.

3 hours ago, Livin said:

with very little effort in Popper it could be 100x easier for everyone to install and configure tables - and know the files are correct.

...but with effort elsewhere to adjust to the Popper folder stucture.  And other than matching a table to its ROM, sometimes a PUP, and sometimes a backglass, there is no "correct" file for any other position

[Rappelbox]

4 hours ago, Livin said:

I loaded 15 tables and 11 of them have issues with the ROM, or missing backglass, or missing music, etc... and most had PuP Packs the rest had directb2s files.

 

This is the issue! it's not popper or vpx or anything else. Its a mistake you made.

 

Popper is just simply the frontend, it basically has NOTHING to do with the emulators you use. media files used in popper have nothing to do with the correct setup of tables.

You can have a beatiful looking frontend but if you misconfigured vpx none of the beautiful looking frontend media will work.

 

if a vpx actually is running correct depends on several facts:

is it the correct version, eg 10.7.2, 10.7.3 or whatever

is vpinmame in a recent version, eg 3.4 or 3.5

do you have a working ROM

do you have the correct backglass

do you have the correct dmddevice.dll

for some tables you'll need puppack files (those need a correct installation of pinup player, which is independent to popper!)

optional: do you have altsound, altcolor, vpmalias, music files setup correct

 

all of the above have nothing to do with popper, they're needed to get a vpx table to run properly

 

...without any sort of frontend!

 

same applies for future pinball, although mainly on correct fizx, bam etc. (i don't use fp currently)

 

 

See, this is the homework everyone has to do if he/she wants to participate in the vpin community.

[GTheOneAndOnly]

I've read through the comments here, and I get what everyone is saying. Livin' is right in the fact that he authored this thread to discuss possible changes to the Popper front end, but in order to make those changes possible, most of the major components of VPX would have to be restructured to revolve around that one particular front end program. With there being so many pre-existing members of this community who have already invested the time to learn VPX, and are using their own successful methods to run it...it would be hard to imagine gaining the support of enough members to want to make changes that would cause most of us to have to start everything over from scratch. Not only would everyone have to put together a newly structured VPX program that's not even compatible with their existing ones, but all of the tables, scripts, PupPacks, etc. would have to be recreated as well in order to function correctly with the new VPX programming. A new idea may make the use of popper simpler, but it's taken a lot of people years worth of their donated time to build this into what it is now. I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I'm just simply breaking down the reality of how complex such a request would be in order to make it happen. When I first got into VPX last year, it was confusing to me and I almost gave up on it. Now that I have famiarized myself with all the folder layouts and how all of the components work together, installing new PupPacks only takes me about a minute per pack. I am accomplishing this without the use of any front end. The only feasible approach at this stage in the game to making the installation of PupPacks simpler comes down to the authors. I have noticed lately that more of them are using a folder/subfolder strategy in their pack uploads that only require the user to extract the files to one or two different places in order to have them set up correctly. The only task the user is left with at that point is to choose the pup option that best corresponds with the setup they are using (i.e. how many separate screens they have). It's obvious the concern of simplicity has crossed a lot of minds out there, and from what I see..the problem is currently being addressed, and solutions are already being implemented. Those who have downloaded table packs which contained lots of individual components needing placed into each of their correct locations can easily see how things are becoming so much simpler and quicker. I value the happiness of all the members here, and I just want to see everyone getting along and working together like always.