VPU ? VPF Issues

[Dazz]

01/24:

It looks like VPD and VPF are teaming up to try and take down VPU... Not really, but gotta love being picked on to make others look righteous.



Since I've been banned from VPF for many years now and haven't used the site for just as long.. I have no way to respond directly.  For a while now; I thought Paul and I were on a way to understanding that both communities are important to the overall health and well being of the hobby.  I thought that we had a common interest at hand and Paul even sent me a PM asking if I needed help getting additional info about VPD. Today it seems that he has decided to spew a bunch of bullshit.  

If he wants to attack me and my character... I'll just lump Paul/Noah Fentz aka offended by everying, (haha get it... No ahFentz) in the same category as VPD if he want's to play this game.

VPU has NEVER had anything to do with money. First and foremost; VPU has always been about community.  Yes, VPU was initally created as a "spite site" (quote from Paul/Noah)... It was created out of spite due the fact that myself along with several others were treated like shit by Paul/Noah.  His constant promising of fixes & concerns by the community that fell on deaf ears. Issues that could have been easily fixed, never were, and eventually drove several of us long timers away.  We teamed up to create a place where it wasn't ruled by a dictatorship and away from the rules of Noah.  VPU had several content creators that all felt the same way toward the owner of VPF.  Those content creators released content specifically for VPU and we created a following.  I never intended for VPU to be where we are today, but here we are.

1. Basic SAM emulation was secretly added by Destruk (PinMAME Team) and VPF to a private DLL. The DLL's containing SAM emulation were found on commercially available GlobalVR/UltraPin machines, in which contained tables created by... you guessed it Destruk and a couple others from VPF. This SAM emulation was made specifically for and reportedly *sold* to GlobalVR.  It was being held back by VPF and the PinMAME team mebers at the time. It was to be only shared privately, along with horribly built tables, amongst only the elite members on VPForums. I personally had nothing to do with the initial code leak being made public, but the posted did release it on Christmas Eve on VPU.  VPU did take the broken / unfinished code, added LE rom support, fixed the bugs in the code and released the DLLs for it to the public. Yes, this may have been a tunring point for VPU at the time, but the site wasn't created specifically for that. Yes, we went against VPF's rules.  We changed the rules and released tables using SAM emulation... rules that, to this day, no single person has ever seen in writing or have any proof of. It's just been passed around as a rule of thumb.  Has anything ever come out of releasing that code? No; if anything it furthered and engineered a new era of Virtual Pinball. 
 

2. Backglasses from Flying Dutchaman... Wildman has always been in charge of the backglasses on VPU.  To this day, @Wildman, runs a pretty clean ship and produces some of the best looking backglasses around. I honestly don't know if any of FD's images were ever used or not in the creation of any B2S's. I personally never used any for my creations, but can't speak for anyone else. There has never been any proof if they were or were not, just acquisations and butthurt. For the most part; backglass images were found the same way that Flying Dutchaman found them and how a lot of our backglasses and table artwork is found today.  It's called GOOGLE, Ebay, online stores, image dumps, etc.  Noah has always been very jealous that the majority of backglasses and backglass creators started to specifically release on VPU.

3. VPU subscriptions were modeled off of VPForums subscriptions that have been in place for 15+ years, timers, limits and all. They have been prooven to work against bots & site scrapers. Practice what you preach... For 8 years I ran the site purely on donations.  Many months the donations didn't even come close to covering any costs. I paid all operating costs directly from my own personal pocket.  When VPinball.com fell; I stepped up and offered to take over VPinball as it was and continue the site so content wasn't lost.  I knew damn well that VPF wasn't going to step-up their game; and to this day still hasn't.  I tossed a bunch of my own money into getting VPU stable enough to handle increased traffic.  The community stepped up and showed their support...  The subscription model has worked, but it hasn't even been a year. VPU brings in about $1400 per month. Renewal rates have yet to be seen...  As I mentioned above... less than 0.8% of 46,000 registered members are those that either have a subscription or donated to VPU.  I'd assume that come renewal time; that percentage will decrease.  If it weren't for the subscriptions saving this site; this site would be gone ala VPinball 2.0.

"Billy needs the money to buy new pinball machines"  This part has me rolling... Yes, I do own 2 pins. I have a 1969 Gottlieb Road Race that I got when I was 2 years old and my HyperPin 2125 Pincab that I built in 2010, still running on an i5 with a 970 GPU at 1080p. One machine is located in my bedroom and the other in the dining room of my small 1 bedroom apartment in a suburb of Dallas. I drive a beatup 2013 Kia Soul with over 100,000 miles on it and I'm living the American Dream of living paycheck to paycheck from a job that I work 50-60 hours per week for. SHOW ME THE MONEY, PLEASE!!? I wish I could afford a pin, but I'd have no room to put it anyway. Thankfully, I am privlidged in the fact that I do have many close friends that have large and amazing gamerooms/pinball collections.  

My turn... 

1. VPF has been in operation since the early 90s.  It was originally created by AJ along with a couple other founding members, some of which can be found on Pinball Nirvana. Noah acquired VPF via a hostile takeover and forced removal of its admins.  The site has been a dictatorship ever since.

2. VPF claims ownership to anything and everything related to Visual Pinball/PinMAME.  VPF might as well join VPD in trying to copywrite the terms "Virtual Pinball".  Uploading to VPF states that anything uploaded becomes property of VPF. Authors DO NOT have control over their files or the ability to have their content removed from the site if they desire.
3. VPForums created a business (VirtuaPin) that is and still should be considered a direct conflict of interest. Directly using community created content to supplement the business.

4. VPF deters builders from coming up with innovations because he wants to sell his parts and only his parts. VPF does not allow any competing products to be mentioned or sold by community members in the VPF community.  This includes the most popular DIY DMD, Pin2DMD.


 

That image got your attention, eh? 
 

Did you know that VirtuaPin, owned by the VPForums owner, was directly implicated in the fraud case with Skit-B regarding the Predator machine that was never made?  If you aren't familiar with this case; let's put this in perspective... Remember Deeproot Pinball? Skit-B puts Deeproot to shame.  Rumors have it that the CNC machine menioned in the legal case below is still owned and in use by Virtuapin. 

The Skit-B Predator discussion is still a very lively discussion on Pinside. Check it out.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion
 

Ever have that feeling that no-body has your back?  Yeah, that's the feeling that I get over all of this... 

[LynnInDenver]

I do still post on VPF from time to time... but when it comes down to it and we finally make progress on Secret Project #1? It certainly won't go on VPF, and that's in part because of Paul's "But it should all go here" attitude. If it should all go there? Walk the walk, and make the site worth it. I'm also determined that, if I ever build a physical pinball of my own, that I won't use his cabinet kits for that, either.

 

Radiant Silverball wasn't built from a flat pack kit, nor with any of the armor he sells, and I'm really glad I went that route.

 

Walk the walk would mean not making noise about VPU in any way. The ship has sailed, VPU is here now, and it's clear if it's VPF or nothing, a number of table authors would just retire or form their own little private exchange group and VPF would still miss out. It would also mean improving his site software. It would mean letting people pull their content for any reason. Honestly, it would mean allowing color ROM support files to be posted, I'm sure the lack of such is in continued response to the SAMBuild and other stuff fiasco. It would mean decoupling what's posted from what he sells in terms of what's supported and what's not - we're talking PuP-Packs, allowing external downloads, etc.

 

Also, yeah, it would be overall bad - at least in the short term - for VPF to go away. But honestly, I'm also not sure that, in the long term, that VPF is really doing all that much good. VPU has more activity, and the biggest build team for tables, VPW, doesn't even post on VPF. VPF only looks like there's more activity because of Bigus1.

[KiwiBri]

When I first got into Virtual Pinball, VPF was the most easily found website online, with a ton of information. I even looked into getting a cabinet kit from them at one point.. Over time I saw how things like Pin2DMD and the like were treated etc. VPFs owners true colours shone. 
It was too bad about VPinball.com and all that happened, but I am glad VPU has continued to be "in it for the money" 🤣 

Decent website, decent discussions and information. VPX table and media availability and uploads. Thankful for all this.  Here's to the future of VPU  🍻

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by KiwiBri

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, clearly Paul (Noah Fentz) is willing to spin the idea that you are in this purely for the money, and willing to jump right to calling what you're saying about your financial situation "lying".

 

Also, I will say, it seems like every single time this coal mine fire flares to the surface? It seems like it's always Paul who brings it up. He's clearly unlikely to ever let this grudge go regarding the way VPU changed the rules (and in his view got away with it). I've been in fandom for over 30 years, in various capacities, and I have seen his type multiple times.

 

All I have to do is look at who always starts the latest flare up, what constitutes the latest table content on both sites (more backglasses here, most of the VPF exclusive content is JPSalas and Bigus1, VPW is VPU exclusive, Borgdog and I think Bord only post here...), and really that I've talked with more people from here (and at vpinball before it closed) that have issues with VPF management versus over there with VPU management (JPSalas, as near as I can tell, just wants to track and support at one single place). And that Paul's username is saying, "No Offense"... which should be an automatic turnoff to just about anyone with more than a shred of empathy. He's never going to see where his behavior is part of what's holding VPF back, and I'm sure he'll never be able to even contemplate where that may be costing him sales; I want to build my own physical pinball one day, but I won't buy one of his cabinet kits to do it with.

 

He might, MIGHT have a point with Pin2DMD, but like a lot of things, the ship has sailed at this point, and if he had such a serious issue, he should have asked Freezy to not enable color support in his DMD extension because (correct me if I'm wrong) it uses files generated with a Pin2DMD related tool. This week is the first time I've seen him finally spell out the specific evidence against Pin2DMD, and I've asked him in the past what that evidence was. And given that his store sells a DMD product, it looks like a serious conflict of interest to anyone who bothers to actually pay attention (wait, he puts the brakes on mentioning this DIY product because of accusations of "theft", and yet he sells a related style of product in his store, hmmmm...). And then there's the related issue of running a forum dedicated around dark gray uses of IP, and yet complains about "downloading of whole movies" with relation to PuP-Packs.

 

As much as it might damage the overall community, I'm expecting that the release of Visual Pinball Engine, given the way the second thread was opened here as opposed to on VPF, and Paul's "Parting Shot" of "oh, did they get mad and move to the pay site," it won't be released on VPF, and that over the long term that will effectively sideline VPF as an influence. But I will lay the blame for any damage that occurs at Paul's feet. Again, I've been in fandom for over 30 years, in various capacities, and I have seen his type multiple times.

[Dazz]

If anyone is even reading these updates or interested in keeping up with what's going on....

It looks like VPForums is allowing this guy to stay and post.  Of course this is being allowed because it's a common interest to attack Me and VPUniverse.

https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=48621

I have nothing else to say to Noah directly... This all has been going on for many years.  Most of the isses are done. I only brought shit up because you decided to spout off against me. It's been prooven that our two sites have been thriving in a growing hobby. Both sites are necessary to the continuation of the virtual pinball hobby.  We need to learn to live in harmony with our common interest. 

"via VPF - Noah Fentz"
LOL. That's all I really have ... LOL. You do realize I didn't 'take down' AJ's VPForums, right? I hope you're not that stupid. We, and I say WE, started this site, because AJ's sucked. Bad. It was time. Good thing, too! AJ's went offline right around the time we opened, in an unrelated incident.

Ah HA!  So, Noah, you really do know the real reason as to why VPU was created!  Because... VPForums SUCKS. BAD. It was time. Good thing, too! VPinball went offline and people immediately had an established place to turn to.

"via VPF - Noah Fentz" 
Still trying to figure out where you came up with this. I always say none of us own any of this. Just another baseless attack. I can think of several takedown requests recently honored. We just don't take down content when we know the request is someone being petty. Don't care who it is.

Have you read your Terms & Conditions that appear to have not been updated since 2009? 

"via VPF - Noah Fentz"
For the record, I do not support or condone your VPD site. You know the reasons, and I'd also like to see it disappear. Respect is a must, man.

As far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to stay and participate like a normal person. All I ask is you seriously consider taking down VPD. It's caused you, me, and countless others nothing but grief. Is it really worth it? I also don't want to wake up to 143 spam posts again (whether it was you or not). Okay? I do believe in giving people second chances.

Second chances?  Second chances?!  How many more chances does this guy need?  I was banned from VPForums, well before opening VPU, for far less... I was banned for joining an online chat session with the name of "Mickey Fukin' Mouse".  The reason given for the ban was; "Because it was disrepectful to Randy Davis" - Noah Fentz.  Go figure... a guy with an alias that reads "No Offense", gets offended by Mickey Fukin' Mouse.    

This comment by Noah is basically Noah, giving VPD permission to continue what he does... Granted; Noah is trying to save face by asking to "consider taking down VPD"... This is just free reign for VPD to continue; just more openly. Further proof that VPForums has no interest in actively trying to protect community created content.  Then again, Bogus1 is the primary content creator, correction... light adjuster on VPF now days and he is buddies with VPD.

 

No need for me to make you and your site look bad... You have done that all on your very own, mate.  In no way do I want VPU to be the only site, loosing VPForums would be a crusing blow to us all. Eventhough, Paul and I don't see eye to eye... and obviously probably never never will... I don not want VPF to go away, nor any of the other legit sites.  I have absolutely no issues with Pinball Nirvana, Rogue Pinball, or PinsimDB as each created and have their own followings.  They didn't rip off full sites or copy another sites identity.  I want people that create the content to have the rights to decide where they want their content hosted.  I want to encourage open discussion and active development to further enhance the hobby as a whole. 

Had you of come into the scene with a better attitude and without ripping off EVERYTHING or blatantly trying to copy existing sites; your site may have been welcomed with the community.  However, YOU pissed off a lot of the people that create and upload content...  You've had many people request that their content to be removed from your site; and you refuse their requests and call them names for it.  

"ip addresses of those accounts were based in the us Dallas"
Guess what buddy. You are so full of it.  For one... I don't have the time, nor patience, to sit there an create multiple email accounts, siwthcing VPN's, creating multiple site account, multiple Facebook accounts, etc. I can't even imagine how much time doing that may cost you or where you even get the time to do it. 

My IP addresses are not Dallas nor do they resolve anywhere near Dallas. You only pulled Dallas out of your ass because of my comments above. Yes, I do live in a surburb but it is also about 30 miles away from Dallas and my IP address resolves to an area about 6 miles from my physical location. I've only created one account on your site in the past and that was before you switched CMS, and that was before your site was wiped. I may have created another account with your current CMS and prior to your membership PURGE, but that's it. I have one account on VPF, and that one has been banned for a while.  I can guarantee that you do not have my IP address.

 

"He is the one or someone from his community who signed up as Terry red and Major frenchy"
So, why do we all believe that you created the accounts under Terry Red, Major Frenchy, Nailbuster and others... They were the first usernames that showed up on your site when it first started making the rounds. Then Facebook users showed up by thoes names in various VP groups spouting off and advertising your website. We know this was an attempt, by you, to try to bait people to your site by making them think some of the bigger names were participating. The real Tery Red has all of the proof, and screenshots, regarding this. You have also contacted me with at the least 3 different Facebook accounts, each with different names and fake profiles... each were linked back to the different user accounts below.

"never signed up to his site with multiple accounts or discord"
I have proof that multiple accounts have been created by you. Every one of these registrations are yours and there are many more that the system has denied/rejected. They all resolve to multiple IP addresses from a confirmed source. I received VPD's primary external IP address via a reputable third party. I was able to confirm that it was indeed his IP address when Damien purchased a subscription for VPU via PayPal.  That also included home address and phone number. 

So, yes I do have your personal information... I am able to use that information for legal purposes and it has already been shared with my lawyer and the QPS. 

[Wildman]

WOW let the lies fly at VPF Paul.. You really need to chill you are just making yourself look bad.. you need to grow up and quit acting like a little baby playing in the sandbox..

You forced a bunch of us out cause we wouldn't conform to your way, your rules, your deals you made with people on hear say, Just shut up and move on it is getting sickening again..

we called you on so much stuff and you straight out lied to us we got sick of it .. so Dazz said screw it and we made VPU and we didn't need or steal  your content lol..

you are still pissed cause we did shit before you . and a lot of talented people came to VPU and went for it cause you drove them out and made things you don't have ..

so quit crying now its all past history, We just did shit you been promising people for yrs and never delivered...  yea you did a lot of shit for VP but We have too and you calling Us a hack site

is totally ridiculous.. we moved the hobby forward what have you done for the last 9 yrs???   Pretty much been a absentee site operator only chiming in once and a while to piss and moan..  

and you talk about Respect ?  Why don't you start doing shit instead of bitching about everybody else and start moving the hobby forward instead of sitting back in 2013????

 

and 1 last thing then I'm done wasting my breath cause you do no wrong and only tell the truth , we all know that 😉

 

Your comment about loserman76 aka JEFF is total bullshit.. He uploaded his entire catalog of updated tables to VPU 2 days before he died, I talked to him the day before he died,

and he never said a thing about dying.. So as you said we stole it from you and didn't get permission is total bullshit ..We didn't steal nothing from you, it was a gift from  JEFF before he died ,he didnt have time to upload it all (which we now know) we had to sort it out and upload it for him .... Did he give it to you ???  Oh I think not...I wonder why...I know why but I wont give you the satisfaction... This is the last time Im going to address this bullshit Paul you need to grow the fuck up and move on its really getting old.... stop bring up shit from 10 yrs ago you should of ran your mouth then but didn't and elected to hide.. nobody wants to hear this shit anymore time to move on....  Once again have a nice day 🙂👍

[LynnInDenver]

It's telling that he more ignores my attempts at constructive criticism in terms of "you know, it would help to actually put some energy into improving the site and make it better so people don't feel like it's just kind of an aside and doesn't make your business look less professional."

 

(Edit: After I posted this, he PM'd me a "great post thanks" and showed that he at least read some of the constructive criticism in my last post, and said he'd give more replies later.)

 

The only points I can concede right now is "Lucky1 is a thief" now that he's coughed up specifics, not that I wasn't already sure of that, and "you've been in the business a while." Everything else is the whole "Understanding is a three edges sword. There's your story, his story and the Truth."

[JFR1]

Zoiks.  That forum thread is a tough read.  You're a voice of reason @LynnInDenver 

Love how you time your posts.

Don't give up.

[LynnInDenver]

Well, the Slurs Derail doesn't actually help the matter over there. I have Chepas in my Ignore list there for a very good reason, he doesn't bring anything to the conversation at this point, and I have enough tables on my vpin I can ignore his contributions there too.

[LynnInDenver]

...and now Bigus1 is accusing me of being a "shit stirrer". If he expects me to just pick a side without asking questions and pushing for improvements like I have been, I can see definite reasons for never downloading his tables, and I can understand why he's got a permaban and a negative reputation.

[Thalamus]

Only people that can't play well, love Bigus1 tables. I've tried a few and all I can say, is that I do get friggin bored playing them as they are made intentionally easier to play. Normal machines have approx 2 balls between the flippers and not out lanes so tight you can hardly squeeze a ball in there.

 

Everyone know by now that I have no love for that guy. Mutual of course. I just want to add, that I have several reason for this hate. Being admin over at vpinball for well over a year I had many stories, told to me; with proof of his behavior. I will never respect a guy that states things like "This now plays much better", openly for something he has spent a couple of hours on.

 

So, don't be discouraged or upset over that turd my friend. He isn't worth mentioning actually.

[Darkstar]

3 hours ago, Thalamus said:

Only people that can't play well, love Bigus1 tables. I've tried a few and all I can say, is that I do get friggin bored playing them as they are made intentionally easier to play. Normal machines have approx 2 balls between the flippers and not out lanes so tight you can hardly squeeze a ball in there.

 

Everyone know by now that I have no love for that guy. Mutual of course. I just want to add, that I have several reason for this hate. Being admin over at vpinball for well over a year I had many stories, told to me; with proof of his behavior. I will never respect a guy that states things like "This now plays much better", openly for something he has spent a couple of hours on.

 

So, don't be discouraged or upset over that turd my friend. He isn't worth mentioning actually.

The best, or should I say worst example is the Bigus Twilight Zone Mod. Skitzo did a hell of a job…I mean…I’ve played that machine enough to know what it should somewhat feel like, vs the BIGUS mod I’ve gotten to friggin wizard mode most every time I played it (which isn’t that many, mostly out of the absurdity)

 

I’m glad you brought it up actually….I was half tempted to make a blind test between the two tables in a video…but half of me is realistic of “who would really care”. As a collector I’ve found most people tend to like the machine best that they have the longest game on in my room…it’s actually interesting psychology. It’s crossed my mind many times people that don’t know any better like Bigus mods because of that simple fact…a little more dopamine than the other version, for lack of a better term. 

 

Not to get corny on ya, but I super appreciate that post Thalamus 

[Wildman]

Whats really funny is how this thread got so derailed    all of a sudden Paul wants to cry about us being a hack site and disrespectful to everybody that ever had anything to do with  VP..10 yrs later LOL

If anything this should of been another thread...

one thought though nobody has ever backed up any of his claims about anything.. He said She Said.....

but like I say past history and it is getting real old  LOL...

This thread is about VPD douchbag that is stealing upload for upload on every site and making a site with all taken content from every site he has access to ..

guy is a  POS and Paul Really you believe in second chances LOL.. You banned all of us for simple bullshit and this guys is ripping everything from everywhere and you don't seem to have a issue about that WHY?

but you accuse us of stupid shit like taking files and improving them and call us thieves and hacks.. You really need to get your priorities straight your being to easy on this dude, and why I laughing so much cause you are is still bringing  up shit from the past and busting our balls on stupid shit...get over it and take down the real issue here the thieving fuck that's selling drives and shit and making a mockery out of every VP site out there... we are all in the same boat.. You need to channel your anger to shit that really needs to be addressed and coexist with us.. you had your chance to make peace along time ago and chose not to.

Dude we are all here for the same things if you still want to continue this bullshit go for it ..I thought by now you been over this and our sites stayed separate and could coexist..

 Its your move Paul you can step up and end it now or just be a bitter asshole but this shit is done here and there wont be anymore responses or discussion on this websight anymore about this topic

Its over....  I will be waiting for your response, It will be lets move on ?...or fuck you guys? ,It ends TODAY ,,,its all up to you now Paul whose gonna be the bigger man here?? Time to step up or shut up your choice...        Thanks and have a great Friday night at your shop😉

 

this post edited to move to this new topic, it had nothing to do with vpd and this topic

 

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, Thalamus, I was already pretty well on ignore regarding Bigus1 as it was... in a way, I'm glad he "showed me his ass" (to use a term the author John Scalzi uses), because now I don't have to be diplomatic. I was actually asked in a recent stream about whether or not the table I was playing was "this guy, or Bigus1?" And next time I get asked that, I can say with certainty that I won't download his tables, and can honestly say when asked why, "because he attacked me in a thread where I was trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone else, just because he got banned somewhere and wanted a scapegoat to flame."

 

I'll give him the weekend to decide if he's going to PM me over there, and then I'll drop his name into the Ignore file alongside Chepas' name, who merely verified why I had his name in there already.

[robertms]

This recurring squabble between VPF and VPU is like hemorrhoids: unpleasant, annoying, irritating, often infuriating, and no matter how hard you try never goes away. In fact @Wildman should change the title to "VPU/VPF hemorrhoids". Hopefully this flare-up passes soon, time to lighten up and get back to pinball.

[LynnInDenver]

Well, I have commented that it does seem like the flare ups do come from one specific side of the hobby.

[Itchigo]

Just funny to watch this go back and forth like a Tennis match.

 

Oh, and anyone who says having a site is just in it for the money? Full of crap. I don't have the overhead of VPU or VPF, but I've never covered my cost by donations. I take that back, early on by a generous donation from Randr I did for a while. It has to be even harder with a higher cost.

[LynnInDenver]

Poked Noah privately to ask about further responses on the public thread... and Bigus1 is now in my Ignore file, for everything, so he can't even PM me. I have no time for someone who will not only show their ass like that, but think they're right.

[LynnInDenver]

...and now Noah's attacking on the Virtual Pinball Club thread on Pinside, just because someone brought up "hope you're ready to make tables and show them to the people at VPU" with someone looking to buy a preloaded cabinet.

 

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/virtual-pinball-club/page/58#post-6758493

 

I mean, for fuck's sake, it's been nine fucking years, let it the fuck go already.

 

I'm pretty much just going to be a lurker there from now on.

Edited February 5, 2022 by LynnInDenver
Adding my response to what Noah is doing.

[Dazz]

2 hours ago, LynnInDenver said:

...and now Noah's attacking on the Virtual Pinball Club thread on Pinside, just because someone brought up "hope you're ready to make tables and show them to the people at VPU" with someone looking to buy a preloaded cabinet.

 

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/virtual-pinball-club/page/58#post-6758493

 

I mean, for fuck's sake, it's been nine fucking years, let it the fuck go already.

 

I'm pretty much just going to be a lurker there from now on.

 

Noahs business was created by his monetization of his community. Using his community to further his business.
 

If Noah wants me to leave his business aka “livelihood” out of it… He needs to leave VPU alone and get over it. Both sites have created followings with more and more people getting into the hobby. It’s been 9 years! Lately he’s become ever increasingly jealous of VPUs maturing. He’s loosing control over “his” hobby. Noah is now showing his SUPPORT for VPD. This only shows his lack of care of the community created content that drives his business.

[Dazz]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:17 PM, Itchigo said:

Just funny to watch this go back and forth like a Tennis match.

 

Oh, and anyone who says having a site is just in it for the money? Full of crap. I don't have the overhead of VPU or VPF, but I've never covered my cost by donations. I take that back, early on by a generous donation from Randr I did for a while. It has to be even harder with a higher cost.

 

In about 8 years of running the site; never have donations covered the full monthly cost of running VPU. Over those years; I paid a LOT out of my own pocket and contemplated on shutting the site down multiple times because I couldn’t cover it. Only since changing to subscription based has the site been able to self-sustain, but even that’s barely. Every month when the necessary bills are paid; there is a little reserve that gets put back. It’s in reserve for when a month comes that subs don’t pay the bill and that’s been close a couple times. Honestly, I give more VIP memberships away for free for people participating and contributing than has been any purchased.
 

I’ve stated this before; On average VPU brings in ~$1400-1500. VPU costs about $1100 per month. It’s $200 per month just for offsite backup and content delivery. File storage and bandwidth for the downloads section is the largest of the costs. Right now monthly transfers, download files section only, are about 50TB. They have been as high as 75TB. Another 5-6TB in database and normal site transfers which are handled by dedicated (non shared) servers. This doesn’t include licensed software fees, or paid mods/addons that has to be paid every 6 months. I’m sure I could cut some costs by going to free stuff like SMF, phpbb or something similar, but that would set the site design and tech back 5 years or so.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, the bad part is that he does have one of the best cabinet kits... but I'm determined that, when it comes time to build my own real pinball, I'm just gonna, well, build my own cabinet to go with it. I've built a cabinet from scratch before (see: Radiant Silverball), and I can sure do it again.

 

He's always been a bit jealous and covetous by my lights... I believe it's getting worse because he hoped that vpinball closing up shop would put traffic back to him, and it just didn't materialize because people who were there didn't want to go back and were already on VPU anyway, so he's doubled down on attacking the remaining "traitors". He's stretching on the "makes money hand over fist", without thinking about the bandwidth costs and having a modern architecture. He's probably got some old server plan somewhere - and a refusal to allow video downloads probably helps the download rates immensely too.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, it's been made clear by Chepas that my constructive criticism should be considered unwelcome. If constructive criticism is an attack on the site, then clearly I'm expected to keep quiet and love the site as it is.

 

Not sure I'm even going to bother with lurking there now.

[Wildman]

51 minutes ago, LynnInDenver said:

Yeah, it's been made clear by Chepas that my constructive criticism should be considered unwelcome. If constructive criticism is an attack on the site, then clearly I'm expected to keep quiet and love the site as it is.

 

Not sure I'm even going to bother with lurking there now.

Everything is good in the UNIVERSE ......     Who cares what some of the cry babies think... They cant take it Fuck um  

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, overall, given the implications from both chepas and Bigus1 that constructive criticism is actually an attack on the site and attacking me "in kind" for it, and Noah's added posts on Pinside regarding his tired old saw of 'THEFT THEFT THEFT DEN OF THIEVES THERE' (which I'm betting is more taking advantage of bad optics uploads when VPU opened than any actual proper facts), plus my own general mood as I'm suffering heavy pandemic fatigue and burnout at work, I'm done with VPF. While the hobby needs more sites, VPF has outlived the usefulness overall and is becoming actively detrimental to the hobby as a whole. Outside of JPSalas, the remaining regular contributors of tables there are toxic, and unlikely to be kicked out because it would turn VPF into a ghost town at this point. It's not worth sticking there for anything, even JPSalas, except for updating DOFLinx one final time on the final FX3 update.