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The Long Lost Vp Tables


PinballBuzz

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Hi all,

Thought I would start a thread to give some thought to those old forgotten tables that reside in the vp8 archives.

What favourites do you still have that you would like to see brought back to life ??

Here's two of mine

http://irpinball.org/screenshots/got300.jpg

http://irpinball.org/screenshots/aquarius.jpg

Hopefully someone will show these some vp9 love (no disrespect to the original authors and anyone taking up the challenge should try and contact the authors if modding from the originals)

Cheers Buzz

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Here is a controversial idea.

 

If the rule for emulating/recreating a table is 3 years past it's last production date should the same apply for modding of existing but no longer supported tables.  If a table has not been updated in 3 years should you be able to modify it in the case where an honest effort to reach the initial author is made but you are unable.

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um...I disagree some of the table builders are not in touch maybe due to moving or

 health related problems so I still think if the builder can't be located ...tough

 then build the pin yerself!

I know I'd hate if I were one of those who just happened to see on the web

one of my older pins modded without my permission

most vp8's also can't be modded due to the ball hanging up in too many spots

 they all should just be rebuilt to accommodate the newer options available in vp

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Here is a controversial idea.

 

If the rule for emulating/recreating a table is 3 years past it's last production date should the same apply for modding of existing but no longer supported tables.  If a table has not been updated in 3 years should you be able to modify it in the case where an honest effort to reach the initial author is made but you are unable.

 

The only way that dosn't sound entirely reasonable is if it was an original creation, as opposed to a recreation of a real world table.

 

We should honor people and the work they put into things, but at the end of the day when you're recreating someone else's table I feel like the 'ownership' is a bit more murky. If you don't have the time and interest to maintain it, then everyone understands, but it seems like it should be okay for someone else to pick up the torch and run with it. Three years is a long time in a forum.

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Want to keep this on topic guys.

Just thought we could discuss which tables we would like to see redone / updated thats all.

I have been in touch with an author who has 50 or 60 tables to update, so in those cases the author is aware of the sitauation, so I would say either be patient, or as Faralos says - build the pin yerself.

It would be nice if some of the talented out there would maybe see one of these old tables and think "Jeez thats nice, I will put in on my to do list"

I like the current set up where an author in his table notes grants permission to mod or not - this wasn`t even thought of as an option years ago, maybe coz there were so few people working with vp ??

 

Cheers Buzz :)

Keep your suggestions coming.

 

Anyway, here`s another one

 

http://irpinball.org/screenshots/skyjump.jpg

 

 

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with the B2S designer thingie soon to come to fruition I think also

 that there are many would be artist/creators who would give that program a try

I know I would

 anyhow going back to the older EM's reason many of us original builders balk at redoing the older pins

 is for me anyhow a lack of creativity on the actual design of the play field

I like to make my own tables if only for the creative freedom they give me

 and I also don't know how to build any pin that uses a rom

so if any of them are romless then maybe I can try my hand at recreating some of them

 but must they play and sound like the real ones? that would be the toughest part I'd think

especially if the real one ain't around any more to glean stuff from it

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oh and that three year thing is ONLY for the newest commercial pins

as for originals any time is a good time to redo one!

all it takes is an okay from the table author

so most any pin you find anywhere

you do not have to wait three years b4 asking to redo it

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  • 3 weeks later...
um...I disagree some of the table builders are not in touch maybe due to moving or

 health related problems so I still think if the builder can't be located ...tough

 then build the pin yerself!

I know I'd hate if I were one of those who just happened to see on the web

one of my older pins modded without my permission

most vp8's also can't be modded due to the ball hanging up in too many spots

 they all should just be rebuilt to accommodate the newer options available in vp

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself there Faralos....

 

 

 

Quoted from http://vpuniverse.com/forums/index.php/topic/312-top-100-tables-need-fs-versions/page-2#entry2630

All my pins are open for modding

just keep in mind that I still want the credit for building the original

 

  ;)

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so where is the contradiction?
I give out permission for any of my tables to be modded

 and for the older pins made by others

yes you should at least try to make an effort to contact them

and if they can't be found or refuse the permission to redo it

just build them yerself!

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Fire, 300 Top Score, Jungle Lord, Millionaire, Evil Kneviel, Defender! Ultimately it would be nice if we had one VP that supported all formats. I think a good idea would be is if you don't have permission to mod then the original must be included with the mod download. So credit can be given, seen and played from the original Author. I am working on modding these for personal use. I need a top scan of Jumbo Decal for jungle lord, looks like crap but can play full screen, is there any trick for VP8 plunger power?

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reason the different vp's don't get along is all the new things that we can do now with it

 compared to ten years ago like alpha ramps, vp9 has a larger ball (why they did that is beyond me)

better graphics all around, GI lighting, fading lights, moveable ramps, invisible flipper options,

the ability to import and export images and sounds, etc

 so vp9 really is the only vp version that ain't compatible with the older ones

yeah it does suck kind of, welcome to progress

just remember to name the pins vp8 or vp9 so you know which version it'll work with

 most older vp versions will work in vp8

but the vp9's for the most part will only work well in vp9

some vp8 pins WILL work in vp9 (trigon for one)

but most don't or will crash upon loading

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for modding pins with no author around be real careful though to which site you upload the finished pin to

 some sites (vpf) won' let you upload any pin with NO authors permission

 you must have gotten the original table builders okay first (only on that site though)

here I guess as long as the old one is included with your mod it would be okay

but I'd ask first anyways just to be sure

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modding rules have been changed over time

 

on current vpf it is not allowed to mod anything without permission, ever, even after three years

 

however on old vpf there was some agreement to try to contact person through forums, mails, pm's and if person doesn't reply in a month or two or three (don't remember but much less then three years) every table was free to mod

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  • 2 months later...

I know I'm a bit late to this conversation, but I've only just come back to VP, and reading up through old threads....anyway...

reason the different vp's don't get along is all the new things that we can do now with it

 compared to ten years ago like alpha ramps, vp9 has a larger ball (why they did that is beyond me)

Just to put you out of your misery Faralos (well, one of them anyway).

The ball in VP8 & VP9 is the same size - 50 units. The difference is in how VP detects the edge of the ball. This change was done to cure the "ball through flipper" problem (amongst others that can be observed) - and was done by the "ultrapin" guys so they could sell it as a commercially working machine.

 

To demonstrate to yourself the difference in behaviour do this simple test:

Make a default table in vp8 & vp9 - up the plunger lane make two control points opposite each other. One at X=925, Y=925; the other at X=974, Y=925.

Plunge the ball up the lane several times & observe what happens.

(Change the right hand point to 925,975 if you like to see "normal" behaviour in both tables).

 

Many vp8 tables were "lazily" made with ball paths that weren't actually 50 units wide at all points, but it didn't matter because they worked.

 

Hope this makes it all clear (& hopefully you'll stop telling everyone that the vp9 ball is bigger!)  :)

 

Regards,

Dan.

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  • 1 month later...

Quote from WizardsHat:

 

"To demonstrate to yourself the difference in behaviour do this simple test:

Make a default table in vp8 & vp9 - up the plunger lane make two control points opposite each other. One at X=925, Y=925; the other at X=974, Y=925.

Plunge the ball up the lane several times & observe what happens.

(Change the right hand point to 925,975 if you like to see "normal" behaviour in both tables).

 

Many vp8 tables were "lazily" made with ball paths that weren't actually 50 units wide at all points, but it didn't matter because they worked.

 

Hope this makes it all clear (& hopefully you'll stop telling everyone that the vp9 ball is bigger!)"

 

 

Thanks for explaining this, I think now I can fix a bunch of tables where the ball vanishes "under" the table/graphics; I believe everyone knows what I'm describing. I have been looking to solve this for awhile.

 

Quote from Zarquon:

 

Here is a controversial idea.

 

"If the rule for emulating/recreating a table is 3 years past it's last production date should the same apply for modding of existing but no longer supported tables.  If a table has not been updated in 3 years should you be able to modify it in the case where an honest effort to reach the initial author is made but you are unable."

 

 

Nobody needs permission to mod anything, they need permission to release it to the rest of the world.  What an invisible elephant in the room this topic truly is, and within the community.  If we want things to move along/get better, we must share/coordinate.

 

Which brings me to more elephants, lol.  A screenshot will tell the story fast.

 

TWZModcurrent.jpg

 

 

 

Megapin's TWZ is arguably the best table for VP; the number of downloads on the file is telling enough, especially when combined with the ranking of the table at IPDB.

 

Script is unmodified, I don't understand much of it, yet.

 

Graphic changes/fixes:

 

*Perspective altered/table closer to player;  Gumball shot, anyone?

 

*The clear ramps should now be visible.  I need help on this one because as you can see they don't display properly with my video card, but it's better than nothing.

 

*New backdrop images to replace low-res dark ones.

 

*Camera light moved to it's proper location, although still at the same angle as to not block the spiral shots.

 

 

WIP/bugs:

 

*When shooting the left ramp, the ball gets past the ramp when it rolls to the clear ramp area, it goes into "slow motion", creeps around the ramp and somehow through/under the ramp, and falls through a void to nowhere.

 

*Gumball/Power Ramp Graphics

 

*Backdrop image(s)

 

*There's always something

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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*When shooting the left ramp, the ball gets past the ramp when it rolls to the clear ramp area,

it goes into "slow motion", creeps around the ramp and somehow through/under the ramp, and falls through a void to nowhere.

are you playing this pin with vp9? it was made for vp9 and may have bugs showing up if played in vp8

that would be the only thing I can think of that would make the ball drop into 'the twilight zone'

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