Monopoly has begun…

[FishTales10]

I have started to color Monopoly.   I can usually color a scene with little problem.  When I test my files in my real monopoly I have some problems with the animation scene bleeding over colors into the score screen.  
 

Here is a few scenes I have colored.  I have colored way more but I can not get them to trigger during the game.  

[adamstillman]

Looks great so far.. keep up the awesome work.

[bushav]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:14 AM, FishTales10 said:

I have started to color Monopoly.   I can usually color a scene with little problem.  When I test my files in my real monopoly I have some problems with the animation scene bleeding over colors into the score screen.  
 

Here is a few scenes I have colored.  I have colored way more but I can not get them to trigger during the game.  

I'm trying to learn the coloring by taking up the Batman Forever project where it was left off.  I sure admire the guys who are successful at this.  Like you I can color the scene and then it either bleeds through or changes color in the actual gameplay.  And then I will color another scene the same way and it will work perfectly.  I can't figure out the difference between success and failure in the colorization process.  I'm not having any issues with the triggers yet.  Some of my issues seems like the color is not keeping up with the animation during gameplay.  Like it is lagging a frame or two behind.  I'm wondering if some of the animations have very similar but slightly different timed scenes that the developer repeated.  So my color scenes trigger but don't quite match what is actually happening in the gameplay.  One scene that was previously colored is not even in the dump.  I don't know how it was colored and a scene created yet I have watched all of the dumps I have and the scene doesn't exist therefore I can not create a trigger!  Keep up the good work on Monopoly.  If nothing else I will now have a grasp of how hard these colorizations are.

 

Lane

[lucky1]

39 minutes ago, bushav said:

Like you I can color the scene and then it either bleeds through or changes color in the actual gameplay. 

If the colors from the previous scene is bleeding into the next scene you simply need to trigger the next screen to stop the colors from the previous scene.

In the end all scenes need to be triggered to make it look perfect. 

 

39 minutes ago, bushav said:

Some of my issues seems like the color is not keeping up with the animation during gameplay.  Like it is lagging a frame or two behind. 

Try to use "ColorMask Sequence" mode instead of simple "ColorMask" mode .  It uses triggers on every frame with global masks to keep the sync.

https://pin2dmd.com/chapter-9-colormask-or-replace-sequence-mode/

 

Alternatively you can use "ColorMask Layered" mode which uses its own masks within the scene (athough it uses a global mask to trigger the start frame of the scene.

 

[FishTales10]

Thank you for the tip on “color mask sequence”.   I will be trying it out this weekend.  
 

Monopoly has so many tranistion scenes.  It is really making it tough on many scenes.  Almost every single scene, fades, rolls or shrinks/enlarges.  
 

I am having a difficult time with “delay” and how to use it.   I don’t understand how changing the value can work to my advantage.   Or what I should change values to.  

[slippifishi]

Transitions are pretty difficult to deal with reliably/every possible wipe, so I would suggest you focus on getting everything else working first, you can worry about the transitions later. They are on screen for such little time, honestly they aren't worth the effort at this early stage. I admit they will look jarring at first, but if you pick a sensible default palette and make this similar to the main score palette, this will help reduce how obvious they are (most of the transitions will wipe back to the main score)

 

ColorMask scenes have the potential of suffering from ghosting/bleeding, but Replace scenes don't. Ask yourself if you have to use a ColorMask scene because there is some dynamic element, or if you can use a Replace scene instead. In your examples posted above, the Jackpot and Shoot Again scenes jump out as being obvious Replace scenes to me (though beware the value awarded for Jackpot might be different and may require additional Replace sequences - 1 million, 2 million etc). 

 

However, the Jackpot scene looks like it probably has some common frames in that sequence; ie the first frame is the same as say the 4th or 5th frame, just before Pennybags jumps out; this may require you splitting the scene into two parts and triggering each part; the first to cover the initial fluttering of money, then a second to cover Pennybags jumping out. More triggers may be required depending on which hashes you use to trigger.

 

The other scenes you posted all have some dynamic element (eg. score) and you will need to use ColorMask for those instead. I don't have much experience of using ColorMask Sequence, but I understand it's the equivalent of cutting up an animation into individual ColorMask frames, and then triggering each frame individually. There are added benefits to using ColorMask Sequence I think, but I am a bit "old school" and prefer to cut and colour everything frame by frame. By triggering every frame in a ColorMask sequence, you in many ways eliminate the timing issues that can occur with ColorMask and cause ghosting or bleeding that you are seeing, but you must cut and trigger every possible frame/hash in the sequence, otherwise you will get flickering instead(!)

 

I would also suggest you forget about the "delay" value for now and focus on cutting and triggering scenes and frames individually. You can use this value to affect how long a frame will display; for a ColorMask type scene, you can use this value to force it to bleed onto the following frames (there are times when you can use this to your advantage). However remember that if another trigger fires it will interrupt this!

 

For the record, making the transitions look nice is easier with a Replace scene; it's not impossible with a ColorMask scene but it's a bit more advanced. They are both a lot of work to do, and for such little benefit; if you colour everything else in the game except the transitions, it is not so obvious; yes, they stick out like a sore thumb right now because you are intently watching the DMD. But when playing for score, you don't notice the transitions so much.

[lucky1]

9 hours ago, slippifishi said:

However, the Jackpot scene looks like it probably has some common frames in that sequence; ie the first frame is the same as say the 4th or 5th frame, just before Pennybags jumps out; this may require you splitting the scene into two parts and triggering each part; the first to cover the initial fluttering of money, then a second to cover Pennybags jumping out. More triggers may be required depending on which hashes you use to trigger.

 

Replace sequence should also work, because there every single frame is triggered  but like slippifishi said

 

9 hours ago, slippifishi said:

but I am a bit "old school" and prefer to cut and colour everything frame by frame.

 

which is also o.k. 🙂

 

[FishTales10]

I have been trying unsuccessfully to use both color mask sequence and replace sequence. 
 

I am working on the multiball scenes.  
 

No dynamic content. 
 

I cut the scene, color it using color mask, then I switch over to replace sequence.  I set a keyframe and a hash for each frame in the sequence (animation).  
When I try in the real pinball, the very last frame in the animation stays on the screen and will not change off the last frame.  
 

When I restart multiball (after I drain 2 balls) the restart multiball animation uses all the frames from the first multiball scene, just not all of them.    I get no color in this scene.   
 

I thought when you use replace sequence that any frame I have already colored and keyframed and hashed would appear colored anytime during the game.  Am I misunderstanding the way the replace works? 

 

[bushav]

Seems line the online pin2dmd tutorial says the first hash in a sequence clip triggers the scene and then each frame waits until it’s is triggered by the next valid hash. That leads me to believe that your video will only be comprised of scenes within that sequence. I don’t think it will peruse all your scenes and videos looking for a match. Just my guess. I can’t test because the sequence features aren’t supported by freezy. It basically syncs the delays to prevent ghosting according to my study. 
 

I am breaking the majority of my videos into individual scenes and using replacement coloring unless something variable like score is within the video.  This way you can use the entire list of “single” frames. I occasionally use same scene in different videos like Statue of Liberty/helicopter scene in Batman Forever. I was able to use seven scenes in two videos. Until helicopter either blows up or skydiver emerges. 
 

I make sure it is labeled a color mask scene before I create the trigger. I wish someone would tell me why this matters.  If I forget there is a “fix” button to correct trigger type. Again, why does this matter?

 

Editor corrupted today. Lucky1 suggested 64 bit version. Now I don’t get random crashes like before!  Whew!

 

How you like clicking pixels ‘)

[FishTales10]

I will do more experimenting.  My next attempt is going to be to divide the scene into the repeating frames. 
 

Frames  1-7 repeat, so I’ll try to use the replace sequence to “replace this repetition”.  
 

Will be trying it now.   I have been chopping up this multiball scene for a few days now.  

[slippifishi]

10 hours ago, FishTales10 said:

 

I thought when you use replace sequence that any frame I have already colored and keyframed and hashed would appear colored anytime during the game.  Am I misunderstanding the way the replace works? 

 

 

If I understand correctly, when you use a replace sequence you are effectively saying "the replace sequence starts at this hash, and then the subsequent frames use these hashes". Crucially, if the first hash doesn't ever trigger, then the other hashes in the sequence will never trigger either. So where you say "any frame I have already  colored and keyframed", I believe you mean you had triggered it as a "subframe" of a replace sequence, and this won't work the way you are imagining; the display will not check for matching hashes within a replace sequence for every frame, unless the first frame of that sequence was triggered. For those frames in the middle of the sequence that you want to reuse, you will need to cut the frame out and add distinct triggers for them...

 

...and if you are paying attention, you will realise that adding a trigger for that individual frame from the middle of the sequence will also interrupt the replace sequence; this means you probably will need to cut the replace sequence into two or more sequences.

[FishTales10]

Thanks Slippi.    I will try it with only setting a hash and keyframe at the beginning of the replace sequence.   The multiball scene I am doing is 16 frames.  
 

I was setting a hash and keyframe for every subframe in the sequence.   All 16 frames.   
 

I got the animation to work like this but I would rather do it the proper way.   Thank you for the tips!!!  I’ll be coloring again tonite.  

[slippifishi]

On 6/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, FishTales10 said:

Thanks Slippi.    I will try it with only setting a hash and keyframe at the beginning of the replace sequence.   The multiball scene I am doing is 16 frames.  
 

I was setting a hash and keyframe for every subframe in the sequence.   All 16 frames. 

 <snip>

[lucky1]

Layered ReplaceMask could be an alternative. If you don´t modify the L-Mask the whole frame get´s replaced just like in normal replace modes. Difference to replace sequence is that all frame crc´s of the scene get checked when the scene is started through the initial trigger and the matching frame is displayed. That means you can assign multiple keyframes as an entrypoint to the scene and should always get the right frame displayed (instead of the first frame in sequence mode).

 

@slippifishi Can I use your post from above for the tutorial on pin2dmd.com ?

 

[bushav]

1 hour ago, lucky1 said:

Layered ReplaceMask could be an alternative. If you don´t modify the L-Mask the whole frame get´s replaced just like in normal replace modes. Difference to replace sequence is that all frame crc´s of the scene get checked when the scene is started through the initial trigger and the matching frame is displayed. That means you can assign multiple keyframes as an entrypoint to the scene and should always get the right frame displayed (instead of the first frame in sequence mode).

 

@slippifishi Can I use your post from above for the tutorial on pin2dmd.com ?

 

 

Ignore My Info In This Post As Lucky1 pointed out my reasoning was in error.

 

So,

 

If for instance there is a video with an moving airplane and stationary clouds. If I use layered replace mask and identify a stationary cloud as the trigger, would the scene always restart with the airplane in the correct random position after interruptions and restarts?

 

If so this really helps—-after we hopefully get a Freezy update. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by bushav

[lucky1]

15 minutes ago, bushav said:

So,

 

If for instance there is a video with an moving airplane and stationary clouds. If I use layered replace mask and identify a stationary cloud as the trigger, would the scene always restart with the airplane in the correct random position after interruptions and restarts?

 

If so this really helps—-after we hopefully get a Freezy update. 

 

No ! First of all what you are talking about is a usecase for Layered ColorMask not Layered Replace Mask.

The software can only detect position of an object based on masks and hashes.  If you have multiple positions of an object you need to capture all  possible positions of the object in dumps and then create masks and hashs that only triggers that object in those positions. There is no artificial intelligence which automatically detects objects no matter where they are. Have a look at the tutorial here

https://pin2dmd.com/chapter-8-advanced-coloring-using-colormask-layered-mode/

I think the airplane can be compared to the car. The car has around 40 positions where it can be in that scene, which means 40 hashes.

[slippifishi]

<snip>

Edited August 17, 2023 by slippifishi
Figure it out yourself, serum guys!

[slippifishi]

And to finish where this all started @FishTales10; the last image/example in my previous post is one cheapish way to cover transitions/wipes by making a frame "stick" on the display on purpose; add a Replace Sequence scene with the last frame before the transition starts, then add a trigger to said frame. This will then stay on screen until the transition finishes, or until another trigger fires (probably your main score trigger; depending on the mask you use for that main score and how the transition plays, this can still result in choppy return to the score!). Note this method really only works with Replace Sequence scenes and not ColorMask Sequence.

[bushav]

Good thinking exercises @slippifishi   In your last example if the four frame scene was created as a normal "replace" video wouldn't it all work ok.  Then the last scene in your example would be triggered and never look for a second trigger.  It would just play beginning to end unless interrupted.  So you don't necessarily have to worry about identical opening scenes unless you create two "sequence" triggered videos with the same opening scene.

 

I think I'm going to cover my "wipe" transitions with completely separate frames and triggers.  In Batman Forever the Gotham Modes all have a score screen that starts with identical frames and then the wipe reveals unique mode names.  I am going to only color one set of the identical scenes and then split the tree into all the different modes when the unique frames begin arriving. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by bushav

[slippifishi]

16 minutes ago, bushav said:

Good thinking exercises @slippifishi   In your last example if the four frame scene was created as a normal "replace" video wouldn't it all work ok.  Then the last scene in your example would be triggered and never look for a second trigger.  It would just play beginning to end unless interrupted.  So you don't necessarily have to worry about identical opening scenes unless you create two "sequence" triggered videos with the same opening scene.

 

You can't add more than one trigger to a hash; once I have added a trigger to "x01" I can't add another colouring trigger of any type.

 

EDIT: I think I see what you are asking now; yes, that could work, that's what I describe when I first name SEQUENCE A and SEQUENCE B. It depends on the animation, in some cases the second (or later) instance of the frame that's being repeated will have a longer delay than the first; if the first instance of the frame is visible for less than later uses of the frame then you may end up getting flickering back to the default palette when the frame is supposed to display longer.

[FishTales10]

Thank you so much for the information.   I won’t be trying to color by trial and error as much anymore! 
 

90% colored on Monopoly.   Just trying to get triggers set up now and proper sequencing.  

[FishTales10]

Well Monopoly may have just died.   I was doing some coloring.  I always save my project after every scene I color or fix.  
 

Now my project file will not load anymore. 
 

Error:

Ein unerwarteter Fehler ist aufgetreten

 

reason: 

java.lang.RuntimeException:  error calling onLoadProject

 

 

tried reinstalling editor and java 64.  No luck. 

 

[Terranigma]

15 hours ago, FishTales10 said:

Well Monopoly may have just died.   I was doing some coloring.  I always save my project after every scene I color or fix.  
 

Now my project file will not load anymore. 
 

Error:

Ein unerwarteter Fehler ist aufgetreten

 

reason: 

java.lang.RuntimeException:  error calling onLoadProject

 

 

tried reinstalling editor and java 64.  No luck. 

 

Lucky will probably have a suggestion. I have had this happen multiple times over the span of a project. My XML file was corrupted and I had to manually edit it. Worst case you may have to send your project files to lucky to take a look at. I believe he has fixed projects for others before.

 

Before you do anything else, make a complete backup of your current project and put that somewhere safe. 

 

Edit: While this has been brought up, if @hazurdous is around, maybe lucky could help you too. 

[lucky1]

The problem was that the "Delete unused Palettes" function deleted palette 0 in his project which should not happen.

This will be fixed in the next build in the beta folder. For now make sur palette 0 is used in your project.

[lucky1]

40 minutes ago, Terranigma said:

Edit: While this has been brought up, if @hazurdous is around, maybe lucky could help you too. 

 

What´s the problem there ?