New VPX feature - Surround sound output

[Ginsonic]

BTW: I did not forget about the VST plugin guide, guys, but real life stuff is currently whipping me hard , so please stay tuned, at least I made the first screenshots...

[umpa]

DJROBX what 7.1 amp are you using?

I was going to buy the 2.1 amps but i think it seems cleaner just using 1 amp and no need for another subwoofer.

 

[RustyCardores]

 Rob's using mini amps. That was my mistake earlier.  He is however just using the one subwoofer.... using bass routing on the windows side of things and setting your speakers a particular way, you are able to direct all bass to the one sub.  I will let Rob explain further, because I will cock it up.

 

Rob, perhaps you can modify one of my graphics to display your setup?  Seems that the graphics are the easiest thing for people to get their head around.

[umpa]

 Rob's using mini amps. That was my mistake earlier.  He is however just using the one subwoofer.... using bass routing on the windows side of things and setting your speakers a particular way, you are able to direct all bass to the one sub.  I will let Rob explain further, because I will cock it up. [emoji6]

 

Thank you.

I think that's what I want to do. If possible would rather not get a 2nd sub but not totally against it either.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[umpa]

Ordered my Lepy Lepai LP-838 amps! Woo hoo

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[DJRobX]

My wiring diagram looks like Rusty's but there's only one 2.1 amp, the other two (that go to the playfield) are 2.0.

The key difference in mine is that I have bass routing enabled in Speakers Properties in control panel, and I have my rears defined as small size speakers, and front (where the 2.1 amp is), as large:

[umpa]

My wiring diagram looks like Rusty's but there's only one 2.1 amp, the other two (that go to the playfield) are 2.0.

 

The key difference in mine is that I have bass routing enabled in Speakers Properties in control panel, and I have my rears defined as small size speakers, and front (where the 2.1 amp is), as large:

 

 

Great thank you. I assume although my amps are 2.1 I can do as you did with the bass?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[RustyCardores]

This is Rob's configuration and prob a better option for new adopters, as it minimises the output devices needed.

Those of us coming from PMD Mk1, can still use the other method displayed as this will utilise the additional subs that we already have.  (or we can pull them out and use them in another project like a MAME cabinet  lol)

 

[Ginsonic]

Update:

Last week my tactile speakers arrived and I mounted four of them into my cab's front and backside. With the onboard Realtek soundcard it worked right out of the box, now I am struggling with my VST host solution, but there is light on the horizon!

Here is a first screenshot from the current VST host with all channel routings for 7.1 (including routes for legacy VP versions), but many tests will follow, until it is perfect.

One thing, which tortured me for a long time is, that I could not get any sound from the front speaker channels (-> backglass) using my virtual audio cables, until I understood, that most (if not all) PinMame sounds are Mono and therefore were routed through the Center channel  The onboard soundcard seems to distribute them to the front channels automatically, the audio cable does not. So I had to draw an extra route from the center channel to a Mono/Stereo converter and put them together with the Stereo channels from L/R. (on screenshot see channel #3 leading to a VST plugin named "Stereo Touch" !

BTW: THANKS so much DJRobX and Toxie for this new sound experience! It is a huge difference, when e.g. the coin sound comes from the cab's front and not from the backglass speakers!

 

VST host routing (Yes, spooky it looks ):

[umpa]

Just wanted to report that even though I have full DOF I added the exciters and as someone has said before this table takes it to an all new level of immersive play! Thank you!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[xantari]

On 9/6/2017 at 6:22 AM, Ginsonic said:

Update:

Last week my tactile speakers arrived and I mounted four of them into my cab's front and backside. With the onboard Realtek soundcard it worked right out of the box, now I am struggling with my VST host solution, but there is light on the horizon!

Here is a first screenshot from the current VST host with all channel routings for 7.1 (including routes for legacy VP versions), but many tests will follow, until it is perfect.

One thing, which tortured me for a long time is, that I could not get any sound from the front speaker channels (-> backglass) using my virtual audio cables, until I understood, that most (if not all) PinMame sounds are Mono and therefore were routed through the Center channel  The onboard soundcard seems to distribute them to the front channels automatically, the audio cable does not. So I had to draw an extra route from the center channel to a Mono/Stereo converter and put them together with the Stereo channels from L/R. (on screenshot see channel #3 leading to a VST plugin named "Stereo Touch" !

BTW: THANKS so much DJRobX and Toxie for this new sound experience! It is a huge difference, when e.g. the coin sound comes from the cab's front and not from the backglass speakers!

 

VST host routing (Yes, spooky it looks ):

What program are you using to do that VST routing? I've never done that before and would like to look into it...

[Ginsonic]

22 hours ago, xantari said:

What program are you using to do that VST routing? I've never done that before and would like to look into it...

This is "Plogue Bidule", one of the most intuitive VST standalone hosts. I also use "Blue Cat Audio Patchwork" on my Arcade cabinet, similar functions, but not so powerful like this one. Together with Asio4all and my onboard Realtek HD Audio soundcard it works like a charm.

[wimpie3]

I've tried out this version of VPX. As soon as I try to use a second PCI sound card to play the flipper sound effects, some tables start giving me a "could not create sound buffer for load" when loading them. How can this be avoided? The table plays fine so suppressing the error might be a temporary solution as well.

[wallclock]

Good Morning Gentleman,

Want to say I have Star Trek Next Generation and this mod works absolutely fantastic, giving VP a great new dimension(2.0 sub in front, 2.1 sub upper table and creative speakers in the BG), everything works as intended.  The issue I have is most any other table I try to play  I get no sound out of the BG and all rom sounds come thru the table which make it pretty much unplayable do to the vibrations and sound being overly loud.  A couple of examples would be Start Trek LE, Mustang.  I am wondering with the modded tables do I need to add something to the non PMD tables to get the rom sounds back to the back-glass( I always thought they were ROM driven and directed by VP as to where to go ?).  So just throwing it out there before I pull that last hair out of my head :). The other thing if I am on say Star Trek LE and switch my BG and upper table jacks on the sound card the sound is separated as intended.(BG to BG table sounds on the table).

Being how this mod greatly enhances the realism and game play - I am hopeful someone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks

[Thalamus]

On 9/6/2017 at 1:22 PM, Ginsonic said:

Update:

Last week my tactile speakers arrived and I mounted four of them into my cab's front and backside. With the onboard Realtek soundcard it worked right out of the box, now I am struggling with my VST host solution, but there is light on the horizon!

Here is a first screenshot from the current VST host with all channel routings for 7.1 (including routes for legacy VP versions), but many tests will follow, until it is perfect.

One thing, which tortured me for a long time is, that I could not get any sound from the front speaker channels (-> backglass) using my virtual audio cables, until I understood, that most (if not all) PinMame sounds are Mono and therefore were routed through the Center channel  The onboard soundcard seems to distribute them to the front channels automatically, the audio cable does not. So I had to draw an extra route from the center channel to a Mono/Stereo converter and put them together with the Stereo channels from L/R. (on screenshot see channel #3 leading to a VST plugin named "Stereo Touch" !

BTW: THANKS so much DJRobX and Toxie for this new sound experience! It is a huge difference, when e.g. the coin sound comes from the cab's front and not from the backglass speakers!

 

VST host routing (Yes, spooky it looks ):

So. Do I understand you correctly. Why I can't get sound to the backglass for tables like JP' Serious Sam ( Original ), is because pinmame is sending it to center ?

If so, what do I need to fix it ? Do I need to buy this program or ... ?

 

[Ginsonic]

3 minutes ago, Thalamus said:

So. Do I understand you correctly. Why I can't get sound to the backglass for tables like JP' Serious Sam ( Original ), is because pinmame is sending it to center ?

If so, what do I need to fix it ? Do I need to buy this program or ... ?

 

Hi Thalamus,

this screenshot was made at a time, when VP9 and VP-PM5 did not have surround sound support included (only VPX). Now that all VP versions have it, this quite complicated way is no longer needed, and I now use Eqalizer APO for that.

It is capable to use VST plugins and advanced routing, and it is freeware. I will provide new screenshots here, stay tuned...

[Thalamus]

That sounds great. Thank you very much. 7.1 is awesome, but, there is also some drawbacks with my current setup.

[Ginsonic]

This is my current solution:

All VP versions have now surround sound included, so a much more simple solution than the one above is necessary to use 7.1 together with VST plugins and some tweaking actions: Equalizer APO!

Equalizer APO is virtually inserted between your sound source and your soundcard, so that all these manipulations get possible.

1. Install EQ-APO
2. Activate it for your soundcard using the "configurator" program.
3. Use "configuration editor" to customize your sound landscape (see screenshot)

In the screenshot you can see different "racks" (described  top down):

• The first one sets the sound device (my onboard Realtek card)
• Now the channels for the following racks are defined,
• First Stereo LR, where the next two racks (VST plugins, an EQ and a compressor) are assigned to.
• The same for the Center channel except that another VST plugin ( a Mono to Stereo converter with spatial widener)  is added.
• Then same procedure for Rear LR (EQ + some amplifying for the tactile speakers) then again for Side LR.
• EQ-APO always runs in the background, no need to start it seperately
• Not THAT difficult, isn't it 

The purpose of all this is to improve the sound quality and to compensate level differences between the channels. Not really necessary for a proper function, but much fun!

You can find VST plugins as freeware for all kind of applications, feel free to ask for some neat ones.

Have much fun improving your surround pinball experience!

 

[xantari]

It think I missed something very important here. Surround sound functionality was back ported to VP9?!

[Ginsonic]

23 minutes ago, xantari said:

It think I missed something very important here. Surround sound functionality was back ported to VP9?!

Yes, in late December 2017!

[Thalamus]

3 hours ago, Ginsonic said:

This is my current solution:

All VP versions have now surround sound included, so a much more simple solution than the one above is necessary to use 7.1 together with VST plugins and some tweaking actions: Equalizer APO!

Equalizer APO is virtually inserted between your sound source and your soundcard, so that all these manipulations get possible.

1. Install EQ-APO
2. Activate it for your soundcard using the "configurator" program.
3. Use "configuration editor" to customize your sound landscape (see screenshot)

In the screenshot you can see different "racks" (described  top down):

• The first one sets the sound device (my onboard Realtek card)
• Now the channels for the following racks are defined,
• First Stereo LR, where the next two racks (VST plugins, an EQ and a compressor) are assigned to.
• The same for the Center channel except that another VST plugin ( a Mono to Stereo converter with spatial widener)  is added.
• Then same procedure for Rear LR (EQ + some amplifying for the tactile speakers) then again for Side LR.
• EQ-APO always runs in the background, no need to start it seperately
• Not THAT difficult, isn't it 

The purpose of all this is to improve the sound quality and to compensate level differences between the channels. Not really necessary for a proper function, but much fun!

You can find VST plugins as freeware for all kind of applications, feel free to ask for some neat ones.

Have much fun improving your surround pinball experience!

 

 

I have a question. Where to get this software ? I mean, there seems to be a few different. VST plugins used. I've never played with this stuff before so its all "greek" to me

By the path it seems I need Stienberg VSTPlugins. From the description it sounds like this is exactly what I'm looking for. So thank you for providing this information.

UPDATE: I seem to have found 2 out of the 3 plugins. I'll see what I can manage. Thanks again.

[umpa]

 
I have a question. Where to get this software ? I mean, there seems to be a few different. VST plugins used. I've never played with this stuff before so its all "greek" to me [emoji4]
By the path it seems I need Stienberg VSTPlugins. From the description it sounds like this is exactly what I'm looking for. So thank you for providing this information.
UPDATE: I seem to have found 2 out of the 3 plugins. I'll see what I can manage. Thanks again.

I think links are on the SSF Facebook site.

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[Ginsonic]

4 hours ago, Thalamus said:

 

I have a question. Where to get this software ? I mean, there seems to be a few different. VST plugins used. I've never played with this stuff before so its all "greek" to me

By the path it seems I need Stienberg VSTPlugins. From the description it sounds like this is exactly what I'm looking for. So thank you for providing this information.

UPDATE: I seem to have found 2 out of the 3 plugins. I'll see what I can manage. Thanks again.

Equalizer APO:  https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

VST plugins are produced by countless companies, much freeware, even more payware. Steinberg did only create the VST interface standard, therefore the directory name ?

I guess, you found the BlueCatAudio and Voxengo VSTs, they are free, the Klanghelm is Payware, but there are numerous free compressors out there also. VST plugins are a real special world, so try to get into it slowly, start with only one and make your experiences adding some more. An EQ is a good start, the Stereo widener is a real eye opener  ?

As a hobby keyboard player I have collected a lot of them during the last years, so please feel free to ask, whenever you have questions ?

[Ginsonic]

BTW:  http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?m=VSTfx

[Thalamus]

Thanks Ginsonic. I've moved my "problem" over to ssf forum @ vpinball . Just enabling your config makes it sound better. So thank you for that.

But, still I can't seem to fix my original problem.