Visual Pinball 10.8 is a regression compared to v10.7.4

[Darkflame]

Hi all,

 

I made a break with virtual pinball for some time and what a surprise when I came back to discover that the new version 10.8 is a fusion between VPX and VPVR... Why did VP developpers had this stupid idea ? Only 10% maximum of users have a VR headset and for these 10% you force the 90% of all the other users to suffer the change ?

 

All the newly developed tables now contain all the VR things which most of us strictly don't care about (I download a table to see the table itself, not some generic walls and floor), but the size is now multiplied by 3 ! (for example Metallica by VPW is 400 MB instead of 120 MB and all recent VPW tables are 400 MB minimum).

Plus contrary to VP Forums site for example, VP Universe does not keep the olders versions of releases (and that's a disaster for those who don't want to install 10.8)...

 

I'm totally disappointed with this "evolution" and reduced to download only older tables because of incompatibilities between the new VP and precedent versions 😡

Edited May 16 by Darkflame

[neil81992]

All older versions of releases remain under the changelog section of the download page.

 

The rest of your post is just an ungrateful whine. If you're not happy with all the hundreds and hundreds of hours of hard work that developers put into software and creations, then ask for refunds for all the contributions you've made to authors and this site. Whether you like it or not, things evolve - VPX looks and plays a million times better than it ever did. I don't use VR but many do, and I appreciate it is catered for, alongside all the other users with differing setups. If you want to stick to older versions of software, you'll be able to play old releases but you'll soon find yourself unable to enjoy new stuff - VPX. Pinmame, Popper etc will continue to evolve and improve (with occasional bumps in the road). 

 

Have a nice day. 

[Darkflame]

Hi neil81992,

 

Thanks for your answer and for the info about the older versions under download changelog !

 

I am fully aware of the tremendous work that's made with VPX (and even more so because I'm a developer myself) and I'm not ungrateful, but someone has the right to share a first impression even if it's negative, right ?

 

You wrote "VPX looks and plays a million times better than it ever did" : could you tell me what you feel has progressed (rendering, lights, physics) ? I've read the v10.8 changelog in https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball/releases, trying without success to find reasons to upgrade but you will surely tell me that I just have to try myself...

I'm reluctant to install the new version while keeping v10.7 because I'm afraid of what could happen (it will perhaps have side effects on my older version if there are any registry overlaps... do you have any advice on that subject ?)

[neil81992]

1 hour ago, Darkflame said:

Hi neil81992,

 

Thanks for your answer and for the info about the older versions under download changelog !

 

I am fully aware of the tremendous work that's made with VPX (and even more so because I'm a developer myself) and I'm not ungrateful, but someone has the right to share a first impression even if it's negative, right ?

 

You wrote "VPX looks and plays a million times better than it ever did" : could you tell me what you feel has progressed (rendering, lights, physics) ? I've read the v10.8 changelog in https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball/releases, trying without success to find reasons to upgrade but you will surely tell me that I just have to try myself...

I'm reluctant to install the new version while keeping v10.7 because I'm afraid of what could happen (it will perhaps have side effects on my older version if there are any registry overlaps... do you have any advice on that subject ?)

There are detailed lists of all improvements and enhancements for each VPX release on Github.

 

Installing 10.8 does not mean you have to use that version for all table files - you can keep multiple versions of VP on your system and launch tables though whichever version you prefer (table download pages will usually detail minimum software requirements). Unfortunately, only one version of pinmame can be used.

 

If you have been away from VP from some time, its probably worth catching up via the numerous guides available online. You are more than entitled to continue to refuse to upgrade any software but you will find issues with newer releases. You wouldn't expect to be able to play PS5 games on a PS1. Read the guides, back up regularly and tinker until you are happy with a certain setup. Much of this hobby is about learning and tailoring things to your own tastes.     

[Tikimaster]

I can totally understand your reaction. If you’ve been away from Visual Pinball for a while, you might be amazed by all the new developments. A lot has changed since the Stone Age version you’re still using. As with all the changes life throws at us every day, you can either like them—or not. There are certainly some users like you who would rather keep playing on their ancient system than embrace change. That’s their right. Visual Pinball is evolving into a multi-platform experience. VR—I don’t use it—has now become standard in pinball software. If hard drive space were expensive, you might have a reason to complain. If downloads became more expensive because of it, you might have a reason to complain. Just stay away from all that “modern” stuff and be happy with what you have. 

 

[Darkflame]

Thanks for your answers.

 

@neil81992 : if the VPinMAME version must be the same, can I still duplicate the VPinMAME folder inside each VPX version directory or they must share a unique location ?

 

@Tikimaster : my actual VPX version is v10.7.3 which dates from 12/23/2022, so not really "Stone Age" 😁

I'm not against "modern stuff", it's just that I have a lot of great looking 10 MB tables which play nicely so I don't see the interest to download 400 MB versions to have strictly the same experience, just to be 10.8 compatible ! You're right nowadays we have disk space, but it's not a good reason to waste it with useless stuff (which is the case for 90% of us that don't use VR).

[Rappelbox]

Pinmame is registered in the registry so it WILL use the same directory anyways. But that’s not a big issue. I don’t see the need of different versions, unless I oversee something special. 
 

regarding 10.7.4 vs 10.8

 

stick with your old version and be happy. If you use old hardware, especially old 1080p 60Hz monitor for playfield you’ll not care about the new development. 
if you want new details, textures, better physics handling and such you’ll better try it. 
 

I understand you standpoint, don’t get me wrong. “Never change a running system”, “why would I want to download huge tables with assets I don’t use anyways?!”.

 

try it. If you don’t like it change back to your old system. 🤷‍♂️

drawback will be that you can’t play the new releases. And that’s the conditions that NOT the vpx developers demand, but the table creators.

even JPSalas uses 10.8 for his creations and he’s constantly trying to release stable and small sized versions. 

[Tikimaster]

An attempt to summarize the regression.
From Visual Pinball X 10.7.3 to 10.8.0, the project experienced one of the most significant technical and graphical evolutions in its history. The most important milestone was the reunification of VPX and VPVR into a single modernized codebase, eliminating the long-standing separation between desktop and virtual reality development. This transition introduced a completely updated rendering architecture based on SDL2, adding support for OpenGL and OpenGL ES alongside the traditional DirectX renderer and preparing the engine for future cross-platform compatibility. Native VR functionality using SteamVR became fully integrated, featuring automatic headset detection, stereoscopic rendering with dedicated eye buffers, improved depth perception, and substantially enhanced image quality in VR mode. Graphically, VPX 10.8 delivered major visual upgrades across nearly every aspect of the engine. Lighting and material rendering were significantly improved with more realistic reflections, better dynamic light handling, enhanced environment mapping, and more accurate shadow behavior. Anti-aliasing options were expanded with improved MSAA support and configurable supersampling, resulting in noticeably cleaner edges, sharper playfield details, and reduced shimmering during gameplay. The renderer also introduced better texture filtering, improved gamma and tone handling, more accurate transparency rendering, and enhanced post-processing capabilities that allowed tables to look more natural and modern. Performance optimizations helped maintain smoother framerates despite the increased graphical complexity, especially in VR environments where latency and image stability are critical. Table authors additionally gained powerful new creation tools, including support for mesh-based playfields and custom geometry imported from Blender, enabling far more detailed and physically accurate table designs than were previously possible. Internal physics, nudging response, frame pacing, and input latency were refined throughout the 10.7.x and 10.8 development cycle, contributing to a more responsive and realistic gameplay experience overall. The engine restructuring in 10.8 also established the technical foundation for future standalone and multi-platform versions of Visual Pinball, marking a major modernization step that positioned VPX for long-term development beyond traditional Windows cabinet setups. Did I forget somthing? 😃

[Darkflame]

Nice answer Tikimaster, all these arguments convince me to take the step and install 10.8, thanks 👍

 

@Rappelbox : thanks for your advice too 🙂

I'm not using old hardware, my PC is 2 years old and my graphics card is a RTX4080.

 

There's only tables settings in the registry at : \HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Freeware\Visual PinMame. I think VPX executable will need a VPinMAME folder in the same directory to find the VPinMAME64.dll file (hence the need to have a VPinMAME folder in my 10.8 directory and another in my 10.7.4 directory), but maybe I'm missing something ?

You wrote "I don’t see the need of different versions" : the reason is that I plan to use the 10.8 version only for the new tables, and keep a 10.7.4 version for all my actual working tables (as I've read that there's no benefit to use 10.8 if the table is older anyway).

Edited May 17 by Darkflame

[Cliffy]

2 hours ago, Darkflame said:

I think VPX executable will need a VPinMAME folder in the same directory to find the VPinMAME64.dll file (hence the need to have a VPinMAME folder in my 10.8 directory and another in my 10.7.4 directory), but maybe I'm missing something ?

Paths are set in vpinmame by running setup64.exe, check paths button and then click install. Do the same with the 32 bit setup.exe if you like, although really no more need for 32 bit vpx or vpinmame since the hybrid vid/pin games now work in 64 bit.