Spektre Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 This appears to be a bug in the LEDWiz implementation, but perhaps it could be fixed in DOF. The LEDWiz allows 48 levels of PWM for its outputs. Unfortunately level 48 is not 100% on. (My guess is it is 1/48 "off", 47/48th "on"). Email to Groovy Game Gear confirmed constant on is actually level 49. (I have shades of Spinal Tap in my head going to 11....) The problem with this of course is when LEDWiz devices are turned "ON" in game, they are not completely on and have the associated transient on/off noise constantly. Protection diodes can get pelted with 100s of back EMF spikes, during a flipper hold in game. Other toys experience the noise also. With my contactors, if you listen closely you can hear the chattering. One "solution" is to turn off PWM to the LEDWIZ but that has the negative effect of loosing all but the primary and complementary colors on LEDs. Swisslizard, could you look into this and see if it is possible to end the LEDWIz a "49" when toys are supposed to be on? Thanks.
Spektre Posted March 11, 2014 Author Posted March 11, 2014 There is an old thread on ArcadeControls documenting this bug, but I cannot cut and paste into this site.
Content Provider arngrim Posted March 11, 2014 Content Provider Posted March 11, 2014 Is it not between 0 to 48, thus 48 = 49?
Spektre Posted March 11, 2014 Author Posted March 11, 2014 Some of the documentation is written that way and that was the original intent, but there is a bug in the LEDWiz firmware. 0-48 are all still PWM levels with 48 being almost completely on. Level 49 is completely on, so 48 <> 49.
Content Provider arngrim Posted March 11, 2014 Content Provider Posted March 11, 2014 No if you start to count from 0 instead of 1
Spektre Posted March 11, 2014 Author Posted March 11, 2014 Confirmed again today via Randy at GGG. 48 is almost on. 49 is completely on.
Content Provider swisslizard Posted March 12, 2014 Content Provider Posted March 12, 2014 I'll have to do a little research on this. If it is really 49, it wont be a big problem to fix this in DOF.
Spektre Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 How is best to fix this? Would it be easiest just to change the profiles in the config tool (does the DOF application do range checking on the PWM value?)
Content Provider swisslizard Posted March 13, 2014 Content Provider Posted March 13, 2014 Dont change anything in the configs. The value range in the configs is limited to 0-48, which is internaly scaled up to 0-255 while the conig is beeing loaded. When data is sent to a device the values are scaled down to the actual vale range of the output controller. This is the place where this peoblem has to be fixed. If I'm not completely mistaken, I only need to chamge one line of code.
Spektre Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 Understood. I'm curious when you went to the new profiles why you picked 0-48 instead of 0-255? Compatibility with older profiles? Thanks for looking into this.
Content Provider swisslizard Posted March 13, 2014 Content Provider Posted March 13, 2014 Yes, the 0-48 range for the ini file has been choosen to ensure compatibility with the old ini files. However, the next DOF release will allow to use the full value range from 0-255 and also the 0-48 range. 0-48 range has to be specified in deicmal writing (e.g. I48) and the full range has to be specified in hex notation (e.g. I#ff). Like that old settings still work as they should, but newer settings with a finer value range are possible as well.
H4CK3R Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 OK.. so this is why I am getting a humming noice in my cab? it's mostly coming from my under-cab RGB's... while showing yellow, green, and purple... Wait for a fix or?
Spektre Posted April 17, 2014 Author Posted April 17, 2014 It's possible but LEDs don't normally hum even when given a PWM signal. You can check if this is the cause by using the LEDWIz test tool. Tell it to send a very slow square wave. During the on portion of the square wave it is truly on ( no PWM).
Content Provider gtxjoe Posted April 17, 2014 Content Provider Posted April 17, 2014 What are your RGB LED strings connected to? Ledwiz directly, Relays, RGB amp, Zeb booster board?
Spektre Posted April 17, 2014 Author Posted April 17, 2014 Good point gtxjoe. Hacker's been known to connect all sort of things up directly to his LEDWiz
H4CK3R Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 It's weird, my RGBs to my undercab is directly hooked to the ledwiz... I can not pull the colors purple, green, or Yellow without a humming noise coming from cab. I have used the LED tester from groovy game gear, and turning them on one by one, doesnt cause this effect only when I am running DO..
Spektre Posted April 18, 2014 Author Posted April 18, 2014 Are your undercab LEDs strips? Those usually draw way moe current than the LEDWIz can provide.
Content Provider swisslizard Posted April 18, 2014 Content Provider Posted April 18, 2014 What kind of powersupply are you using to power your ledstrips? Ledstrips can draw a lot of power and that can one some power supplies generate some noise when to much power is drawn.
Content Provider gtxjoe Posted April 18, 2014 Content Provider Posted April 18, 2014 5m LED string can draw 6A max (2 Amps per color). Hooked up directly to LEDwiz (let's say limiting to 400mA max), the LEDwiz should be able to handle strings up to 1.2m. If you have one string going around the cab you are probably over that length
H4CK3R Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Odd, when running the ledwiz with legacy, it never made those noices..
Spektre Posted April 20, 2014 Author Posted April 20, 2014 It is possible pre-DOF sent a 49 value, but I have no way to verify it. I never used it.
gamefixer Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 Sorry about the old thread revive, I think I might be experiencing something along the PWM bug with my shaker motor. Its being driven by a replay thats connected to an LEDWiz output. When the shaker motor is supposed to be on the relay chatters and the shaker motor doesnt really get up to speed (sometime it doesnt even start). If I directly ground the relays drive signal the relay does not chatter and the shaker runs perfectly. Again, sorry about the old thread revive. I'm trying to get this figured out and its driving me insane.
Content Provider swisslizard Posted December 25, 2014 Content Provider Posted December 25, 2014 Well, relays arent the best thing to connect to a Ledwiz output. You can never be 100% sure that there is no PWM signal on a Ledwiz output (there are quite a few things if DOF which can influence that). When there is a PWM signal, your relay will react unhappy resp. react a bit unpredicatable. Yor best bet is to get rid of the relay and use some booster circuit (e.g. something with a mosfet) to drive the shaker. This will also allow for proper PWM support for the shaker. Alternatively you can go over all table configs in the config tool and edit the private settings for the shaker, so the shaker is always fully on when it gets activated. Merry Xmas and all the best Tom / Swisslizard
Spektre Posted December 25, 2014 Author Posted December 25, 2014 Contactors and relays will chatter when fed a PWM signal. In general, contactors and relays should not be powered with a PWM signal. (Though they are often specified in the profiles). 1. Make sure you are running version 2 of DOF. 2. In the config tool, on the "Port Assignments" page, set the Shaker motor's MIN and MAX intensity to 48. This should ensure the shaker motor turns completely on or off. 3. Regenerate your config file and install it. Alternately, you can wait for the new Advanced Config Tool to be released which allows you to shut off PWM signals on a pin by pin basis.
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