Leaf switch flipper buttons double/triple registering randomly - how to fix?

[deadmanworking]

So I'm happy to say that during my mini pincab building phase I was able to overcome all challenges (not least due to the amazing resources on this forum) but for the life of me I can't get my leaf switch flipper buttons work precisely, maybe any of the other cab builders out there has some kind of idea? 

 

So my issue is that my flipper and magnasave buttons (leaf switch buttons) randomly register two or three strokes, sometimes when releasing the button, sometimes on button press. This is not an issue during play, but in my front-end PinballX this leads to skipping tables when flipping through and in the F12 table POV edit view I can't select a desired line to adjust with the magnasave buttons consistently, sometimes I have to go back and forth a couple of times due to the random additional presses. When entering high score initals it's similarly imprecise. 

 

Is this expected behaviour? I know from my real machine (Pinbot) that sometimes the switches don't register consistently but nothing on this level. 

 

I'm using real pinball Williams flipper buttons, the leaf switches I originally installed were the longer (80ies) variety, I have switched them to the shorter version but the behaviour is identical.  There's no change whether I map the buttons to keyboard (and using Joytokey) or to buttons, also low latency or normal in Dude's Cab no difference. I have repositioned the leaf switches, made the openings any distance big or small but no adjustment would ever make it so that I get exactly one button action per one button press consistently.

 

 

Maybe I should just switch to gold leaf arcade buttons??

Any help here deeply appreciated. 

 

 

[Floor]

Hi,

 

I have exactly the same issue.

it is driving me crazy.

 

in my case it also effects gameplay.

 

i tried to clean the tips with alcohol. It seems to work a bit but only for 30mins

[Floor]

I also wonder if we cannot add a simple HW debounce filter. This should be possible with a small capacitor (and maybe also a resistor)

 

I have asked Arnoz what he would recommend.

 

 

[Floor]

Arnoz replied that the next Firmware of the Dude’s cab will contain SW debouncing. 
Let’s hope it will be available soon …

Edited May 3, 2025 by Floor

[deadmanworking]

@Floor that's great news, thanks for finding and posting that information! 

I have given up for the meantime and replaced the leaf switches with Ultimarc gold leaf buttons. Of course this doesn't feel nearly as tight as the authentic leaf switch buttons and they also look less authentic and more gimmicky / arcadey but since I spend so much time in the table setup menus it's a huge upgrade in usability. Also it's a painless operation since the button diameters are identical so it's a simple switch and also easily reversible when that firmware upgrade comes.. Fingers crossed 

 

By the way, I did have a few tables where the leaf switches initially affected gameplay (flippers double or triple firing or not reacting after holding the flipper button), I was able to minimize this via trial and error: widening the gap between the switches or even twisting one switch end sideways a little bit. Also, tightening both screws as much as possible when fastening the switches also turned out to be quite a factor. 

[jarr3]

Hello, now we are three having the same problem. I first thought it had to do with my configuration of the staged flippers, until I found it being a hardware issue. Thanks to another forum post.

Until now I have no solution. I will check what kind of leaf switches I bought, the Tungsten leaf switches for example are for high-voltage and would produce the same issue.

[Primetime5k]

Thanks @jarr3 for bring my attention to this! Think I can help.

 

First, you don't want a leaf for the magnas. Goldleafs are overly adequate. I'd recommend using convex buttons for the mags as well. It might be cheating a bit, but helps to identify them buy touch alone.

 

Second issue is using tungsten plated "heavy duty" switches. You need gold-plated "light duty" switches. The first is made for high voltage, the latter for low.

 

The gold-plated will still need to be cleaned occasionally, and will act basically like a tungsten-coated with the flutter flips when dirty. Get those and give them a try - think you'll have much better luck.

 

 

[jarr3]

6 hours ago, Primetime5k said:

Thanks @jarr3 for bring my attention to this! Think I can help.

 

First, you don't want a leaf for the magnas. Goldleafs are overly adequate. I'd recommend using convex buttons for the mags as well. It might be cheating a bit, but helps to identify them buy touch alone.

 

Second issue is using tungsten plated "heavy duty" switches. You need gold-plated "light duty" switches. The first is made for high voltage, the latter for low.

 

The gold-plated will still need to be cleaned occasionally, and will act basically like a tungsten-coated with the flutter flips when dirty. Get those and give them a try - think you'll have much better luck.

 

 

Thank you @Primetime5k, for investing your time helping us.

 

The only problem with using Goldleafs for the magnas, for me, is that they look completely different from the original Flipper buttons having the leaf switches inside? I will check if I can 3D print something to apply to the magnas, where I can add a standard arcade button?

regard tungsten and gold-plated switches, I have not seen any shops where they actually state which kind of switches it is. So you mostly buy out of pure luck.

 

But at least now I know there are two versions and try to watch out for the right one for vpins...

[deadmanworking]

Thank you @jarr3 @Primetime5k for chiming in here, there's some important info posted that might help us all in the long run.

 

So after Primetime's suggestion I spent a closer look at what I used for leaf switches: Classic Bally/ Stern/ Gottlieb Flipper Switch and Williams/Bally Flipper Leaf Switch - Single Contact - both real pinball machine replacement parts and after comparing part numbers safe to assume these are tungsten contact leaf switches. 

Digging a bit deeper turns up gold contact leaf switches like End of Stroke Switch Leaf for Pinball Button Williams Normally Open or Data East Flipper Leaf Switch where it's stated explicitly that they are the low-voltage version - also the visual distinction is obvious if you know to look for it since the contacts appear clearly gold-tinted versus the more silvery looking tungsten contacts. 

 

So for a future build this will be certainly something to look out for. As I mentioned I switched out my leaf switches for Ultimarc gold leaf buttons, since the constant frustration with the double/triple contacts was driving me mad and I much prefer being able to consistently being able to move through the UI. It's sad to lose the stiff springiness of the button action though, and asthetically this is also somewhat of a letdown. I'm building a Pinbot inspired mini cabinet and the flipper and magnasave buttons would have optically matched the WPC11 aesthetic more closely: 

 

The new version with the Ultimarc buttons looks a bit less serious and somewhat tacky but I'm trying to embrace it with the color selection 😅

 

I was also thinking of mixing both types of buttons (and going for black arcade button for the magnasaves) but for now I'm going with this theme. 

Not ruling out giving it another go with the gold contact leaf switches at some point though. 

 

Thanks everybody for contributing to this thread!

 

 

 

[jarr3]

yes, I have read:

Dual flipper cabinet switch with 3 terminals for Williams / Bally and other manufacturers

Smaller low voltage contacts ideal for solid state games. For heavier duty contacts, use SW-1010A-13

[jarr3]

The bible doesn’t explicitly mention why high or low current leaf switches but has gold plated ones listed 

http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/BuildGuideV2/BuildGuide.php?sid=cabButtons
 

further down it is mentioned that gold plated doesn’t oxidise.

 

and there is also a type mentioned which I never heard of; optical sensors instead of leaf switches.

Edited May 13, 2025 by jarr3

[Rappelbox]

only use the gold plated ones because the tungsten will oxidise over time
high current switches use tungsten most of the time because the spark between the contacts cleans the oxide from the material.

 

the optical sensors that mjr mentions in his bible are fliptronic opto boards.

they are normally closed, and when a button is pressed the light passes to the lightsensitive sensor.

they are expensive, need 12v and you'll need to reverse the cirquit or a controller that is capable of NC cirquits.

 

[jarr3]

I have now ordered leaf switches SW-1A-194 and dual leaf switches SW-1A-192 with gold plated contacts and installed them. (Both links to a german dealer Pinball-Parts) Can also be found at Marcos Specialities: SW-1A-194 and SW-1A-192

 

What a difference! Finally the flippers buttons react as expected...

[deadmanworking]

Same here, I ordered the same gold plated leaf switches at Arcadexpress and these finally work as intended. 

Thanks again @Primetime5k for providing the crucial information. 

 

 

Very happy that I was able to go back to my authentic flipper buttons 🙂

 

[RabidUrko]

Leaf switches are the way to go.