System keeps self-destructing.

[Magoober]

I'm having more than a few issues - repeatedly. Last night I had to unplug everything and walk away before I threw my system through a wall.

The system is a new bare metal install of Win10, device drivers, and PUP - all updates applied. It only has an internet connection when I toggle it in my router. 99.9% of the time it is LAN only.

I've had to re-run the Baller Installer several times to fix persistent issues that would reappear literally seconds after I fixed them. Only to have that "fix" last only moments longer.

I'm on my third reformat, reinstall, and do everything all over.

Issues:
Database being locked.
Database being corrupted.
Database fields overwritten with random file names.
Files being renamed.
Files being deleted.
Config files rewrite themselves.
Config files get ignored.
Random applications from the desktop get launched while running popper, displaying over the table, backglass or dmd.
Things work one second, the next they don't. With no changes made.

Trying to keep this short, I'll only rehash the events of just last night.

In FP, when launching a table, my dmd screen goes blank, with a message that says "Input signal out of range, set resolution to 1600x900 - 60 Hz".
Problem is, that is what it's set to, and has always been. Exiting out of FP, back into PUP, sitting at the desktop , running a VP table, no matter where - it works just fine, no issues whatsoever.
So it "must be a FP config" problem, although absolutely nothing about my FP install changed. I tried to fix it - so many steps were taken - honestly I'd be lying to you if I could even begin to recount the steps I took.
But, It got fixed - FP was properly launching tables again - fully utilizing the dmd screen again.

At the cost of half my VP tables no longer working. Every other table would launch with various vbs error messages. Some of the peculiar things to note would be instances where one table could not access a function (pick one, any one) out of core.vbs, (or any other vbs for that matter) yet another table, would be able to without issue, yet then choke on trying to call a different function that the prior table had no issues with.

Went through all my folders, version checking vbs files, making sure I didnt have any sitting outside the scripts folder to ensure that an old one wasn't potentially being side-loaded, and next thing I knew, my VP tables are working again.
But FP tables are once again saying "waaaaahhhh set your resolution to......"

I could only have one, or the other emulator working, not both at the same time - while not just an hour prior, there were no issues.

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, FP and VP are two different emulators and one has nothing to do with the other!"
You're right, The only commonality here is PUP.

So I re-ran the Jan 2025 baller installer on top of the existing install, again. And ran the built in updater.
That appeared to work: vpx, vpt, and fpt tables were all loading, running, and displaying on their correct screens. Yay.
I had to re-add all the tables back into the database, seemed to go just fine.
All my recorded playfield, dmd, wheel, and backglass artwork goes back in without issues.

It appears the only thing left for me to fix is to go back through every table, one by one, and "F1 - show or not show external dmd" depending on the table, and position and size the dmd for each table - because did I back up dmddevice.ini file first? Of course not...well not last night, but three days ago I did - but didn't remember that right away.
Oh, and I have to recreate my custom playlists. Aggravating, but ultimately no big whoop.

So I set about going through my tables Starting with the "A" tables. making notes of what works, what doesn't. Every table launches, runs and displays correctly.
These are the notes I made, and the solutions I applied to each.

"Airborne" vpt, I have no recorded media for the dmd, Backglass hangs after exiting table: Solution delete vpt,backglass, and existing media, remove from db, install newest vpx and fulldmd b2s, will record new media later.

"Al's Garage band" vpt, ball gets stuck in left chute and right ejector, occasionally hangs/crashes when ball is on carousel . Solution replace with vpx , ditto database and media as above with Airborne.

"Alien Poker" vpt, Sticky and/or unresponsive flippers; replace with vpx, as above.

"Alien Legacy" FPT, PinEvent Lite table, No score on dmd, Backglass is one full screen static picture. Tried Alt-Tabbing to see if a dmd was running in the background, backglass then changed to a 3/4 screen image with psudeo-grill.

Solution: I will once again, painstakingly go through every single one of TerryRed's instructions to get this table working again, as it was, an hour ago. I'll come back to this after I fix the other minor issues...

"AFM" - rom colorization is gone. Weird, I know I had it...it's on my recorded preview. Checking the altcolor folder ... all my colorizations, except for four have been deleted.  Solution, download and replace the .crz file. I'll have to replace all the other missing ones eventually ....

So I set the popper batch record utility to record my now missing media for the newly installed vpx replacement tables. When it completes, Errors "Database is locked", I check the media folders, files are there.
Launch Popper, wheel images are present as is all other media. Shrug my shoulders and go to fix Alien Legacy. First thing I go to do is set the "PinEvent" custom launch parameter in PUPs Games Manager. Cant , "database locked".

Curious if it was written to the database regardless of the 'database locked' message, as it apparently just did with the media files..I launch PUP to test the table.

Now, mind you, everything was working. I have not left the cab, rebooted, nor changed ANYTHING regarding either emulator.

FP once again, wont use the dmd screen displaying "set you resolution to ..." and is displaying the tables on my backglass monitor. Playfield monitor is the Windows desktop.
VP is displaying the backglass on both my backglass monitor and on my fulldmd monitor., all tables, vpx and vpts. 
Exit pup, go back in, VP now displays my playfields on my backglass monitor.
Edit my screenres.txt file manually. Resolutions are set correct. Backglass screen is set to 1 - I change it to 2. Save, relaunch.
Appears to work.
FP still wont launch.
Try VP again, monitors are screwed up again.
I reboot.

 

All rom colorizations got deleted. The four that were left, and the AFM I literally just reinstalled.
Vbs error messages are back

FP full dmd is still saying theres a problem with the resolution.

I hit the power button, and before it could power down, I ripped the plug out of the wall.
I'm not going to attempt to fix it again tonight - because my patience has already been fully tested.

Right now, looking ahead, my next steps are going to be "reformat and reinstall". AGAIN.
This is nuts.

If anyone has any patience saving advice - my gratitude is being offered preemptively.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2025 by Magoober

[vossalex1978]

I've traveled the road of frustration and mystery. 

What are the specs of your system and what SSD or HDD you are using in the system (run diagnostics and chkdsk; you could have a dying drive or corrupted drivers)? It sounds like you have several things going on.  You are doing all the right troubleshooting steps.  Also, if you have different HDMI, DP, VGA cables (whatever you are using); swap them and run the pup display config.  Cables can and will cause you headaches; I make sure I use high quality ones. 

 

Here are a couple of my observations while going through similar problems.  

 

1. I gave up on vpt tables.  I am convinced these tables are more trouble than they are worth and suspect the cause of several issues. 

2. "Alien Legacy"  That table... I just can't... Personally, this table simply hasn't worked right in any of my builds and weird shit always happens if try to have it in my system.

3. I did a full format and installed Windows 11 (no issues) without any bloat, telemetry, etc. and updated all my drivers

4. I only install apps that I trust and  that will be needed.  7zip, VLC media player, misc VPinball apps, controller apps, etc.

5. Always double check your .res and .ini files and delete them if you start running into issues with a table.  

6. Backup your db before making changes.

7. If you have an extra drive or external backup drive... IMAGE your machine when it is working!  CloneZilla can be a enormous time saver and friend when things go horribly wrong for reasons unknown.

8. After doing 1-4 I have had 0 issues with stability and weird stuff having.   I stress 1 and 2 (no offense to the table or those involved with it) and 7.  

9. There are files (I believe on here) that will clear out registry settings for vpinball apps (I don't recall what ones) and display settings that are helpful. 

10. I haven't had issues re-running baller installer if displays get changed due to me swapping monitors or cables.  Skip the install apps button and it won't blow away (at least in my experience) your application settings, altcolor or altsound files.  You do want to apply the resolution changes to all apps.

 

I try to remember to image my machine after adding tables or config changes to pinup popper but after my last rebuild and 1-2 I haven't had to re-image my machine again.  

I hope this gives you a little hope and maybe some insight and good luck. 

[Magoober]

3 hours ago, vossalex1978 said:

I've traveled the road of frustration and mystery. 

What are the specs of your system and what SSD or HDD you are using in the system (run diagnostics and chkdsk; you could have a dying drive or corrupted drivers)? It sounds like you have several things going on.  You are doing all the right troubleshooting steps.  Also, if you have different HDMI, DP, VGA cables (whatever you are using); swap them and run the pup display config.  Cables can and will cause you headaches; I make sure I use high quality ones. 

 

Here are a couple of my observations while going through similar problems.  

 

1. I gave up on vpt tables.  I am convinced these tables are more trouble than they are worth and suspect the cause of several issues. 

2. "Alien Legacy"  That table... I just can't... Personally, this table simply hasn't worked right in any of my builds and weird shit always happens if try to have it in my system.

3. I did a full format and installed Windows 11 (no issues) without any bloat, telemetry, etc. and updated all my drivers

4. I only install apps that I trust and  that will be needed.  7zip, VLC media player, misc VPinball apps, controller apps, etc.

5. Always double check your .res and .ini files and delete them if you start running into issues with a table.  

6. Backup your db before making changes.

7. If you have an extra drive or external backup drive... IMAGE your machine when it is working!  CloneZilla can be a enormous time saver and friend when things go horribly wrong for reasons unknown.

8. After doing 1-4 I have had 0 issues with stability and weird stuff having.   I stress 1 and 2 (no offense to the table or those involved with it) and 7.  

9. There are files (I believe on here) that will clear out registry settings for vpinball apps (I don't recall what ones) and display settings that are helpful. 

10. I haven't had issues re-running baller installer if displays get changed due to me swapping monitors or cables.  Skip the install apps button and it won't blow away (at least in my experience) your application settings, altcolor or altsound files.  You do want to apply the resolution changes to all apps.

 

I try to remember to image my machine after adding tables or config changes to pinup popper but after my last rebuild and 1-2 I haven't had to re-image my machine again.  

I hope this gives you a little hope and maybe some insight and good luck. 

Thanks for the reply vossalex1978;
The system is a Ryzen 5600, 32gb ram, a wd black nvme ssd with a 1060 , - put the system together three/four months ago - not a lick of hardware/windows/driver issues.
1. I dont want to write off vpt tables in their entirety - there are a few I actually prefer over newer vpx versions.
2. Had Alien Legacy working perfectly - YES, it was tedious, triple checking EVRYTHING - Having to go through it again - not looking forward to it, but I'll face it - eventually.

3. Was thinking about doing Win11 - but I don't see that as being the cure-all for whats going on.
4. This is as "clean" as a system as one can get - Windows, device drivers, WinZip, and the Baller Installer...thats it.

5. Biggest issue with the ini files and screenres.txt - I shouldn't, - nobody should - have to check them literally every time you lay hands on the machine - nor have them get overwritten and changed - while you're in the middle of using the system. To check a file, have it be what it supposed to, launch popper, play one table, and things go bad on you on your next table launch-find it changed and files deleted - there are no words.
6. Automatic backups of corrupted data dont help. Going to make it future practice to do an sql dump ...hard part is "waiting until everything is working"- and then have it shit itself as you dot your i's and cross your t's.
7. I will be installing a second SSD and using Macrium Reflect to automate drive image backups. Thats something I've already put into practice on my other systems.

8. This is what kills me, I thought I had a stable system - I'd read other peoples posts and think "Oh, wow, I have no idea whats going on there - I'm glad I don't have those problems", and then one day, 1/3 of my tables were renamed randomly, 1/3 of them had their display names changed randomly in the database, some had their rom colorizations deleted (Eventually all of them got deleted), and oh yeah - every config file was shredded. It's like someone wrote a pup-specific virus.

I've stepped away from it for a few days. When I get back to it, I'm going to wipe it and start over, again. Already preparing myself for that. But there's a few things I want to look at - yes I've run virus scans on it. So I'm not thinking it's a 'virus' per se - but i've got this sinking feeling in my gut - that there's some bad code in a vbs that gets triggered when tables launch in attract mode. Which table? Which vbs file? Who knows, but I'm outta ideas as to what the heck happened.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2025 by Magoober

[deadmanworking]

@Magoober certainly feel your pain, if I was in your place I wouldn't keep working on the same system but instead I'd first get a new SSD - the cost of which is an easy invest if you compare it to the hours and hours you probably already spent on troubleshooting.  Install a fresh Windows copy (and disable Defender, telemetry and all other crap with O&O Shutup software), just to make sure you're not stuck with a defective drive that will continously screw up your config. Then: 

-AIO installer, and update VPinMame and VPX manually since it seems the Baller installer still uses older versions. Test and backup. 

-Migrate your tables, ROMs and frontend media folders.  Test and backup

-If all works well you can get fancy and export the registy entries of VPinmame and your frontend to recover all your settings, positions etc., could potentially save a lot of work. 

Wish you all the best!

 

[vossalex1978]

7 hours ago, deadmanworking said:

@Magoober certainly feel your pain, if I was in your place I wouldn't keep working on the same system but instead I'd first get a new SSD - the cost of which is an easy invest if you compare it to the hours and hours you probably already spent on troubleshooting.  Install a fresh Windows copy (and disable Defender, telemetry and all other crap with O&O Shutup software), just to make sure you're not stuck with a defective drive that will continously screw up your config. Then: 

-AIO installer, and update VPinMame and VPX manually since it seems the Baller installer still uses older versions. Test and backup. 

-Migrate your tables, ROMs and frontend media folders.  Test and backup

-If all works well you can get fancy and export the registy entries of VPinmame and your frontend to recover all your settings, positions etc., could potentially save a lot of work. 

Wish you all the best!

 

Yes, my thoughts too.  A new ssd may do the trick.  @Magoober if you go that route you may as well do a fresh windows install and don't restore from a backup to rule out that your Macrium backup has something causing corruption.   @deadmanworking suggestion of the fancy registry export is a good suggestion to go along with your sql dump.  I to have shared the felling about a table with some vbs code too.  There are tables I haven't copied back from my last blow up, so I can't rule out one those tables as causing my issues either.  I was more motivated to get a base system running and image it... and now I tip toe around my cab as to not upset it.   I wish you luck and keep us updated when you get the nerve to jump back in   

[Magoober]

It is a brand new SSD - and exhibits no errors. God, a BSOD or SMART error at bootup would 'almost' be welcome. 😅

[Rappelbox]

sounds like your ssd is incompatible with your mobo.

had the same issue only a couple of days ago on a brand new system. sometimes it would start without issues, sometimes bsod, sometimes corrupted filesystem and so on.

 

don't worry about it, just buy a new one after checking the compatibility list on your mobo manufactureres website.

[Magoober]

12 hours ago, Rappelbox said:

sounds like your ssd is incompatible with your mobo.

had the same issue only a couple of days ago on a brand new system. sometimes it would start without issues, sometimes bsod, sometimes corrupted filesystem and so on.

 

don't worry about it, just buy a new one after checking the compatibility list on your mobo manufactureres website.

I dont know why you would think that, there are no issues booting, no issues with windows, no issues with device drivers, no issues with the file system, no hardware issues - zip, zero, zilch. Every single issue encountered is "PUP-Centric", and only occurs when PUP is running. Not a single thing points to a faulty ssd. The system is stable - PUP is not.