How to fix lag and performance issues?

[LeanderQuest]

Hi!

How do you fix lag? e.g. on Iron Maiden (Stern) and Darkest Dungeon. My computer should be fast enough...but as soon as there is a pup pack involved with videos, loading videos seem to cause lag. VPX is set to "high end pc"...all tables work well, but the videos don't. I get lag every few seconds, most notibly when a new video is loaded. The entire installation is on an SSD. I use the 64 bit exe of VPX.
 

My computer:

OS: Win 10 Pro
Case: Pure Base 500
Mainboard: MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, 8x 3.60GHz
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S SE-AM4
RAM: Crucial Ballistix 32GB DDR4-3200
Graphics: MSI GeForce RTX 2070 Super Gaming Trio 8 GB
Power supply: Corsair RM 650W
SSDs: Crucial MX500 2 TB, Crucial MX500 500 GB
HDD: WD Blue 4 TB

Acer Predator XB253QGP 144 hz

[robertms]

15 minutes ago, LeanderQuest said:

How do you fix lag?

 

Your computer seems fine, however you'll need to share a lot more about your setup if you're looking for lag solution. Is this a dedicated VP computer or do you run other software? Are you running everything in desktop mode on a single screen or is this a multi-screen cab? Do you have VPX and your monitor set to native resolution of1080p at 144hz? What specific versions of VP software are you running: VPX, VPinMame, FlexDMD, DMDext, B2S Server, Pinup Player (post 'about' screenshots). Are you running DX or GL version of VPX? What are your NVidia and VPX video settings (post screenshots). Are you running virus protection in the background?

[LeanderQuest]

Thanks for your reply.
 

VPX 10.8.0 1947 3b3f101-64 bit
VPinMAME 3.6.0-998-a77c2d2-win-x64

 

Windows: 1920x1080, 144hz
VPX set to "high end pc", window, 1920x1080..."144" and "1" are tests done by me...before there was a 0 in both.

I did not upgade FlexDMD or B2s...I used the latest baller installer and only updated VPX to 10.8 and the latest prerelease build and also VpinMame.

GL  or DX? Don't know..the default vpx64.exe. I reneamed it vpinballx.exe so I don't have to manually set the 64 bit version to all games in Popper.

I use Avast Antivirus. I read that you should change hardware threads from 0 to 2 for VLC Player...but this did not fix the problem.

Normally, I use the external DMD (FlexDMD?)...because I can freely set and position it.

I don't get lag on Lord of the Rings and its pup videos, but on Iron Maiden and Darkest Dungeon.
I also downloaded a pack for WWF Royal Rumble, but a short video is only shown during bootup of the table...then nothing works.

Nvidia: I use the default settings.

PinUpPlayer: 1.5.0 (as explained earlier, I only used the baller installer and manually updated VPX and VpinMame because I ran into problems on some tables without an update.

 

[tjaf]

A few random tips you can try. 

 

- In my experience the GL version has better performance. In your visual pinball folder there will be several exe files. One should have GL64 in its name. Try that version first. 

- secondly anti allias settings tend to have a major impact and put a major extra burden on your GPU. Try disabling post processed AA all together as well as sharpen. If that helps only enable them one by one if you really see a significant visual improvement. In my opinion if you are playing at 1080p you don't need AA anyway.

- try exclusive full screen mode in stead of windowed. 

- finally, you can try limiting the texture size to the highest value just under unlimited. Although 8GB should be enough but I suspect for some high demanding tables you will see a jump in performance. 

- You say you use default Nvidia settings. At least check if you enabled "performance" mode. Let us know if you have trouble finding that setting.

- I am not sure about this one, but I think of you use frame pacing, it is fine to keep prerendered frames set to 0, but maybe see if others confirm that tip. 

 

If none of these have a major impact, we need to look for things outside Vpx that might slow things down. 

[robertms]

 

@LeanderQuest so single-screen desktop then ?  There is no such thing as default version of VPX. When you updated VPX did you also copy and overwrite the scripts folder (important)?

 

From your screenshot looks like you're running the DX version, which is preferred by desktop users when overlaying multiple applications on a single screen. For that reason you will need to leave VPX in windowed mode. The GL version recommended above does indeed perform better, but it does not work well for desktop users due to limitations of the windowed mode.

 

While your PC is no slouch, it is also not considered a high-end PC by today's standards. In order to achieve best performance you'll need to adjust individual settings. Frame Pacing may not be the best option for you; if it was, max framerate 0 and max pre-rendered frames 0 would have given you best performance. Try Vertical Sync with max framerate 1 and max pre-rendered frames 1. Also disable Sharpen anti-aliasing AND Additional Screen Space Reflections. Also, try temporarily disabling the anti-virus, those pesky programs running in the background sometimes cause more problems than they're worth (this is where telling us if it's a dedicated pinball PC would make a difference).

 

There is no one size-fits-all solution. Baby steps, try each tip and report back. Perhaps our resident desktop expert @Cliffy can advise more on the desktop PUP player integration.

 

 

 

[Cliffy]

@LeanderQuest here's my desktop settings. Do NOT use the prerelease VPX versions (10.8.1) ONLY use the RC versions, right now on RC4.

Robertms gave you the best suggestions already. I'm running a geforce 1660 6gb and hardly ever get the stutters.

Never run exclusive fullscreen or GL vpx in desktop as they do not allow multiple windows on one screen. You can trick GL by manually lowering the screen res setting by 1 pixel for x and y but it's not worth it when DX runs and looks fantastic

 

[LeanderQuest]

Thanks for your replies! I will try your solutions later.

Why should I only use the RC version? I had problems with one or more tables as they required a later version...so I updated it to a prerelease one.

Here's what my screen looks like -> screenshot.

Yes, my computer is not the best and already some years old, but all tables run smoothly BUT for the ones with PUP videos. Lords of the Rings has no issues though..even with videos.
In Pinball FX I get about 90-100 FPS with everything maxed out and raytracing...so I think my computer should be fast enough for VPX...or isn't this software as optimized as PFX or other games?

[Cliffy]

18 minutes ago, LeanderQuest said:

Thanks for your replies! I will try your solutions later.

Why should I only use the RC version? I had problems with one or more tables as they required a later version...so I updated it to a prerelease one.

Here's what my screen looks like -> screenshot.

Yes, my computer is not the best and already some years old, but all tables run smoothly BUT for the ones with PUP videos. Lords of the Rings has no issues though..even with videos.
In Pinball FX I get about 90-100 FPS with everything maxed out and raytracing...so I think my computer should be fast enough for VPX...or isn't this software as optimized as PFX or other games?

 

Because 10.8.1 is in constant flux and is only a testing platform right now. 

As a VPW tester we only use the latest 10.8.0 release candidates. As of now you can get the rev 1975 versions in artifacts here

https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball/actions/runs/9632260970

For vpinmame use the bottom two rev 1003 versions in artifacts here

https://github.com/vpinball/pinmame/actions/runs/9703104851

 

For pinupplayer (not popper) you should be on 1.5 x64 and x86. Scroll to the Upgrade PinUp Player Only section here

https://www.nailbuster.com/wikipinup/doku.php?id=pinup_upgrade_v15

 

You should also be using at least B2S Server 2.1.2, although I'm on 2.5.0 for test purposes. Since this is a .net program there is no cpu distinction

https://github.com/vpinball/b2s-backglass/releases/tag/v2.1.2

 

Make sure you use the pinupplayer 1.50 files to update the plugins folder under the b2s folder, or in vpinball folder if thats where you have it residing.

 

As far as pup smoothness goes it's try a function of the vsync settings in vpx.  If using frame pacing (highest recommendation) the you should have the values set to 0,0. Anything other than that will put the video out of sync. If using vsync then use 1,1 and again anything else will make the pup vids choppy or lock up completely.

[LeanderQuest]

5 hours ago, Cliffy said:

Because 10.8.1 is in constant flux and is only a testing platform right now. 

As a VPW tester we only use the latest 10.8.0 release candidates. As of now you can get the rev 1975 versions in artifacts here

https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball/actions/runs/9632260970

For vpinmame use the bottom two rev 1003 versions in artifacts here

https://github.com/vpinball/pinmame/actions/runs/9703104851

 

For pinupplayer (not popper) you should be on 1.5 x64 and x86. Scroll to the Upgrade PinUp Player Only section here

https://www.nailbuster.com/wikipinup/doku.php?id=pinup_upgrade_v15

 

You should also be using at least B2S Server 2.1.2, although I'm on 2.5.0 for test purposes. Since this is a .net program there is no cpu distinction

https://github.com/vpinball/b2s-backglass/releases/tag/v2.1.2

 

Make sure you use the pinupplayer 1.50 files to update the plugins folder under the b2s folder, or in vpinball folder if thats where you have it residing.

 

As far as pup smoothness goes it's try a function of the vsync settings in vpx.  If using frame pacing (highest recommendation) the you should have the values set to 0,0. Anything other than that will put the video out of sync. If using vsync then use 1,1 and again anything else will make the pup vids choppy or lock up completely.

Thanks! Downloaded all files but the first two.

"https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball/actions/runs/9632260970

For vpinmame use the bottom two rev 1003 versions in artifacts here

https://github.com/vpinball/pinmame/actions/runs/9703104851"

Where are the download links there? I only see logs with some text, but not a file to download.

[Cliffy]

Just now, LeanderQuest said:

Thanks! Downloaded all files but the first two.

"https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball/actions/runs/9632260970

For vpinmame use the bottom two rev 1003 versions in artifacts here

https://github.com/vpinball/pinmame/actions/runs/9703104851"

Where are the download links there? I only see logs with some text, but not a file to download.

You need to be logged in with a free github account. 

[LeanderQuest]

Thanks! I was logged in, but did not scroll down...and clicked on the versions on the left to see this:

But I was able to download all files now.
VPinMame: There is a normal x64 file and a file vpinmame_sc...what's sc? Which file do I need? Or both?
 

[LeanderQuest]

I installed X64, x64 GL, BS update, Vpinmame and sc...sc seems to be some kind of colored DMD or ROM.

The good thing is that I can run Bad Cats, Comet etc. with sound...it did not work in my previous installation...only in 32 bit, but not 64..don't know why.

A general question on the editor: There are the game options with different settings, but every table has:

"Render options:
Enable ambient occlusion
Enable sc. sp. reflexion"

Should I keep the default settings when downloading and opening a table in the editor? The boxes are ticked on some tables, but not all.

EDIT Ok, I found out that you can enable a performance display in VPX...I get 138-144 FPS...buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut sometimes, mostly during multiball, the performance has a red color around it...the FPS seem to be ok, but there is ... input delay? Or a different delay measued in ms?

Screenshot attached.

Video (pup folder disabled to get to know if the performance issues are video-related)

 

Edited July 2, 2024 by LeanderQuest

[robertms]

@LeanderQuest You should always try running each table with default settings the way the author intended; if it runs well don't mess with settings. If you encounter performance issues then make adjustments as necessary. Keep in mind both Ambient Occlusion and Screen Space Reflections are significant resource hogs, so these should be first to go if you're trying to boost performance on a specific table. You can also adjust VPX video settings on per table basis, without affecting things globally ('specific table overrides' button, don't forget to save, saves your settings in the 'tablename'.ini file)

[LeanderQuest]

Thank you!

How can I support you guys for offering such awesome software and games? Is there a "buy me coffee" etc.?

I just stumbled upon something else...that you actually need pupdesktoppunch.exe and the .bat in the video folder. I did not know and spent many hours on trying around and wondering why Lord of the Rings or Leprachaun King or Iron Maiden have working videos, but e.g. WWF Royal Rumble and others don't...I installed VPX again and again for days...thinking my screen would be too small or something else was incorrectly set...then I saw that not all pup packs have the required desktoppunch.exe and .bat...I copied them and all of a sudden WWF Royal Rumble started working like a charm. Oh wow...

[Cliffy]

Right. Thats the basic stuff for desktop mode.

Now, since you're running Windows do yourself a favor and go to vpx keys, nudge and dof prefs and in the lowest right corner change the input API to Xinput.  This should help with input latency

[LeanderQuest]

Thank you! Input is something that does not work either. My Switch Pro Controller works including the plunger, but the left stick only nudges the table upwards. I tried everything and might use Antimicrox to set keys and assign them to the controller manually.

[LeanderQuest]

Ok, something seems to be wrong. I had a red warning on Guardians of the Galaxy too...in addition to Iron Maiden and WWF Royal Rumble...but regardless of my settings, the latency is always too high and exceeds 6.9ms...becoming red.
It does not matter if I set everything to high end PC or low end PC...or no sync at all...I get the exactly same latency values. Turning off my antivirus does not help either.