File removal requests help

[Terranigma]

Hi guys, 

 

I hope everyone is doing well.

 

I am just updating the DMD colour file list and several authors have reached out to me over the past few weeks about file removal requests not being completed.

I'm not sure if there is some glitch or issue, but is it possible for an admin contact me to help me resolve this for them? I totally get people have busy lives and this is all done voluntarily, so thank you to all the people who help here.

 

I completely understand that removal of files is never a great thing, but it's not for us to decide if someone wishes to remove their content and I believe this has been honoured in the past. Please let me know if this is incorrect. I also understand once something is out there, it's always going to be out there somewhere.

 

Also could we have a statement regarding real pin files, a lot of the colour authors are confused about what is allowed and not allowed here based on this comment by @Dazz

 

Maybe it is easier to purely focus on Virtual Pin/Digital files on VPU completely, regardless if they are new releases or existing. I have only linked Vpin files in my list at this stage and will await confirmation on the rest. I'm organising something to cover real pin that is not linked or related to VPU that will allow those to continue whatever they are doing, but in a way that VPU and artists will not be affected. This way VPU can focus on the V part of the name as it was intended. 

 

Please let me know your thoughts and if you could help that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you!

[LynnInDenver]

Basically, the comment by @Dazz is that the commercially aimed encrypted formats (which includes PAC) are no longer supported on VPU, and while the site administration won't delete all the files (leaving it to authors to make that decision), that no new files in those formats will be approved. This includes physical pin aimed encrypted colorization files (whatever that format is now for Pin2DMD, it's not PAC or VNI), which aren't really supported on virtual machines anyway.

 

The deprecated VNI file format, @Dazz would have to weigh in on whether or not those will be supported, given that the format is supposed to be deprecated to favor protection of the physical pin implementations being commercialized on Pin2DMD.

 

I agree that removal of files isn't desirable, but no site should have a policy prohibiting authors from requesting removal of files.

[Terranigma]

4 minutes ago, LynnInDenver said:

Basically, the comment by @Dazz is that the commercially aimed encrypted formats (which includes PAC) are no longer supported on VPU, and while the site administration won't delete all the files (leaving it to authors to make that decision), that no new files in those formats will be approved. This includes physical pin aimed encrypted colorization files (whatever that format is now for Pin2DMD, it's not PAC or VNI), which aren't really supported on virtual machines anyway.

 

Hi LynnInDenver, thanks for the explanation. That makes sense and that is the way I read it as well. There are just a few unknowns like the authors who have a real pin version (existing or new), even if they don't upload it or post about its here, can they upload a non commercial format such as VNI. Or can they only upload VNI if they are not offering a real pin version or commercially aimed version elsewhere.

 

7 minutes ago, LynnInDenver said:

I agree that removal of files isn't desirable, but no site should have a policy prohibiting authors from requesting removal of files.

 

I do not think VPU is prohibiting authors from requesting removal of files or will add this policy in the future. It is just taking an unusually long time and I am concerned they may have been missed, based on how many messages I have received.

[Dazz]

No files should be deleted.. as we've found out it's just bad for the hobby in general.  Once a file is out there then it's out there... Removing any previously public files from legit sites only makes people seek out shadier / less secure / less protected locations for download. Thus making the users that download them susceptible to possible malware/virus or other issues. Legit sites, such as VPU, have protections in place for such. Removing files that are for digital pinball proves that the author(s) isn't/wasn't necessarily in it for the digital pinball hobby, but possible other reasons.

We will NOT ever have another VPinball issue. All authors have the ability to HIDE their files, but they will NOT be physically deleted. Hiding the file removes the file from public view and places it in an archival database where it can be accessed or re-released upon request.  On the form/rules for uploading a file to VPU it does state this policy, but of course nobody actually reads that. 

 

Encrypted format files... shouldn't be allowed in this hobby... period.  With exception of commercially licensed products, such as Pinball FX, Pinball Arcade, etc.  Everything in this hobby has always been open for modifying by users.  Closed file formats removes this ability.  I've never been against Pin2DMD or Lucky1... I just don't agree with closed/encrypted file formats.  This decision was NOT made by myself.  I've talked to a lot of the primary hardware and software developers for this hobby.  This decision was a group decision based on the majority of those for the changes. 

[Terranigma]

Hi Dazz,

 

First off, thank you for clarifying everything and giving a reply to everyone, appreciate it.

 

4 minutes ago, Dazz said:

No files should be deleted.. as we've found out it's just bad for the hobby in general.  Once a file is out there then it's out there... Removing any previously public files from legit sites only makes people seek out shadier / less secure / less protected locations for download. Thus making the users that download them susceptible to possible malware/virus or other issues. Legit sites, such as VPU, have protections in place for such. Removing files that are for digital pinball proves that the author(s) isn't/wasn't necessarily in it for the digital pinball hobby, but possible other reasons.

We will NOT ever have another VPinball issue. All authors have the ability to HIDE their files, but they will NOT be physically deleted. Hiding the file removes the file from public view and places it in an archival database where it can be accessed or re-released upon request.  On the form/rules for uploading a file to VPU it does state this policy, but of course nobody actually reads that. 

 

While I don't agree that any site should keep files on site (hidden or otherwise) against the persons will, I do understand this is not my decision and it is in the VPU policy as you have pointed out. Upon registering, all users would have had to agree to this, including myself.

 

4 minutes ago, Dazz said:

Encrypted format files... shouldn't be allowed in this hobby... period.  With exception of commercially licensed products, such as Pinball FX, Pinball Arcade, etc.  Everything in this hobby has always been open for modifying by users.  Closed file formats removes this ability.  I've never been against Pin2DMD or Lucky1... I just don't agree with closed/encrypted file formats.  This decision was NOT made by myself.  I've talked to a lot of the primary hardware and software developers for this hobby.  This decision was a group decision based on the majority of those for the changes. 

 

Got it. So can you just elaborate on the non encrypted formats such as VNI.

 

- Can an author still upload his VNI content here if he has a "real pin" or "encrypted" version elsewhere?

- All existing encrypted vpin files (PAC) that are already on VPU are allowed to stay correct?

 

Thank you

[Dazz]

20 hours ago, Terranigma said:

While I don't agree that any site should keep files on site (hidden or otherwise) against the persons will, I do understand this is not my decision and it is in the VPU policy as you have pointed out. Upon registering, all users would have had to agree to this, including myself.

 

This has nothing to do with registering... This is specific to uploaded files and only applies to those that upload files. Hitting the upload button is the agreement. Simply, if a person doesn't agree to the rules on the upload file page... don't upload.

 

20 hours ago, Terranigma said:

- Can an author still upload his VNI content here if he has a "real pin" or "encrypted" version elsewhere?

- All existing encrypted vpin files (PAC) that are already on VPU are allowed to stay correct?

 

- The, non-encrypted & vpin specific files are always welcome here. If a person wants to upload and risk selling real pin files elsewhere; that doesn't involve VPU. It really doesn't get more simpler than, open source hobbies are built upon open source software. 

- Of course, all existing vpin files, including PAC that are already uploaded are allowed to stay.  If someone still wants to upload PAC they can, the encryption keys can be added and the files can still be used. 

The battle between lucky1 & freezy needed to end over a year ago but it just dragged on and on and on and on... getting absolutely NOWHERE. Something needed to be done to move development forward instead of being constantly stalled or pulled backwards.  I polled both hardware and software developers for this hobby and this is what the large majority of them wanted.

[Terranigma]

Hi Dazz,

 

Thank you for clearing everything up.

[LynnInDenver]

3 hours ago, Dazz said:

The battle between lucky1 & freezy needed to end over a year ago but it just dragged on and on and on and on... getting absolutely NOWHERE. Something needed to be done to move development forward instead of being constantly stalled or pulled backwards.  I polled both hardware and software developers for this hobby and this is what the large majority of them wanted.

 

As I've noted elsewhere when it's come up, @lucky1 started that fight by violating GPL licensing of DMDExt, and at this point it's clear he used circumstances at the time to justify rolling out a solution that basically ensured that, for people to run colorizations, those people had to use his software with no open source options, and his continued demand for a stringent set of restrictions on the DMDExt plugin seemed like he intended for that to continue as it gave him the option to basically refuse to update and lock out DMDExt at any time for any reason. I did what I felt was right for myself as a streamer at the time PAC came out, and removed colorizations, and I won't go near any old (VNI) or new (PAC or whatever) Pin2DMD colorizations.

 

Note that I'm somewhat uncomfortable with @freezy releasing a PAC decryption key (there are ethical concerns), but the truth of the matter is that PAC encryption was probably already broken by those who desired to run DMD colorizations on physical pinball, or who wanted to use another software solution on the software side, without paying money into that ecosystem or relying on a closed source blob. I've not got a lot of sympathy for colorization authors that went with PAC and got caught out, as DRM (as @lucky1 used encryption) is always a temporary solution.