Ghostbusters LE

[Gedankekojote97]

Hello Guys,

 

is the Ghostbusters table still forbidden to upload and share ?

 

Thanks and Cheers !

[Thalamus]

 

First rule .... - so, yeah.

 

[Dazz]

Until we can get away from using the required code from Pinball Arcade/Farsight this table SHOULD NOT be shared.  Once we have legit Spike 1 emulation then it's fair game.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, I would second what Dazz said, with an added "the release ripping code from Farsight" complicates any efforts to bring Spike1 emulation to VPinMAME, as well as complicating any release of a "new legit method Ghostbusters LE" build (read: Farsight would possibly still send a C&D just because it might have been enabled with knowledge of their code). There's also the thorny issue of Spike2 differences from Spike1 only being "FullDMD and running on slightly more powerful hardware" to consider, where it might not be enough difference that someone couldn't shoehorn the FullDMD support and wind up supporting tables that get the community into trouble with Stern.

[VirtuallyVern]

Understood "should not be shared" what if you already have it, can we still use it?

[Dazz]

1 hour ago, LynnInDenver said:

Yeah, I would second what Dazz said, with an added "the release ripping code from Farsight" complicates any efforts to bring Spike1 emulation to VPinMAME, as well as complicating any release of a "new legit method Ghostbusters LE" build (read: Farsight would possibly still send a C&D just because it might have been enabled with knowledge of their code). There's also the thorny issue of Spike2 differences from Spike1 only being "FullDMD and running on slightly more powerful hardware" to consider, where it might not be enough difference that someone couldn't shoehorn the FullDMD support and wind up supporting tables that get the community into trouble with Stern.

I seriously doubt that Farsight would say anything about it now.  They have pretty much stopped any kind of develoipment and barely holding on as a company. 

If we have anyone that can code for Spike 1 & 2 emulation... Go for it.

[Thalamus]

What Dazz said, and - well, it would give a better taste in the mouth if the resources where not re-used from the game. But, well, yeah. I doubt too that Fairlight would come after anybody for that. Spike 1 emulation would be soooooo - sweet. Game of Thrones is one of my absolute favorite machines. I have my doubts though that spike 2 can be emulated on a regular PC. And, well, it is too early to emulate it anyway. Still being used for todays, spike 1 isn't.

[Darkstar]

14 minutes ago, Thalamus said:

What Dazz said, and - well, it would give a better taste in the mouth if the resources where not re-used from the game. But, well, yeah. I doubt too that Fairlight would come after anybody for that. Spike 1 emulation would be soooooo - sweet. Game of Thrones is one of my absolute favorite machines. I have my doubts though that spike 2 can be emulated on a regular PC. And, well, it is too early to emulate it anyway. Still being used for todays, spike 1 isn't.

GOT is one of my favorites also. I own a Pro being I don’t much like mini playfields. It’s definitely a machine I’d think most people on location would pop a few quarters in and think “well…that kinda sucked”…but as a home machine it’s pretty tops code wise. The way the different houses interact with the game is really done quite well, and the code update a few years back actually had a lot of love, rather than the “just enough to say we did something” updates Stern tends to do. 

 

But…she’s an ugly b%^&*…I hate the translite and keep meaning to get one of the alt versions, but it’s kinda hard to polish something up that astoundingly lazy in the art department. But yeah…she goes with me to the grave. 

[Gedankekojote97]

Well that sound realy complicated for me haha.

So did i understand right, that we need to wait for a legit "standalone" Spike Emulator (like VPinMame) that can handle the original files or roms from the Stern machines and that right now the code or rom from pinball arcade was used to emulate it ?

 

That sad, this tables is so cool...

 

[Gedankekojote97]

Basicly if i think about it, all of us are using ripped Roms from the original pinball machines to get the games work without the permission from the companys...so what is the difference ? Or do i have a misconception ?

 

[Wylte]

15 minutes ago, Gedankekojote97 said:

Basicly if i think about it, all of us are using ripped Roms from the original pinball machines to get the games work without the permission from the companys...so what is the difference ? Or do i have a misconception ?

 

The difference to me is harm.  ROMs from games that are out of production, running in a handmade virtual environment on home computers, don't affect the original machines in any negative way.  Running stolen code (and yes it is stolen, as it wouldn't have been reverse engineered without the dll Stern gave to Farsight) from a *virtual* product that is targeting the same home environment affects their market share directly.  Makes us clearly "the bad guys."

Making the vpinSPA GB table easily available would encourage more people to go looking for the rom to run it, instead of giving money to (what is left of) the original creators.  If Farsight goes out of business and the rights are held in a similar manner to the Gottlieb ROMs/manuals - then fair game, I say.

[Thalamus]

Basically. That table does exist, and is being shared - friend to friend. And it has even had some updates. So, if you are a dick - you might not get your hands on it

[Gedankekojote97]

8 hours ago, Wylte said:

The difference to me is harm.  ROMs from games that are out of production, running in a handmade virtual environment on home computers, don't affect the original machines in any negative way.  Running stolen code (and yes it is stolen, as it wouldn't have been reverse engineered without the dll Stern gave to Farsight) from a *virtual* product that is targeting the same home environment affects their market share directly.  Makes us clearly "the bad guys."

Making the vpinSPA GB table easily available would encourage more people to go looking for the rom to run it, instead of giving money to (what is left of) the original creators.  If Farsight goes out of business and the rights are held in a similar manner to the Gottlieb ROMs/manuals - then fair game, I say.

Well i think you are right, but i dont understand why Stern is not coperating with the community of VPX…because not all of us can efford a brand new Stern machine so VPX is a perfekt solution for all of us to enjoy those pinball tables.

 

And my opinion is, that pinball arcade is trash…compared to vpx .

Giving Pinball Arcade thos licences but not offering something for VPX (like that you can purchase the Roms or something else) but yeah…its all about money i guess

 

[Gedankekojote97]

7 hours ago, Thalamus said:

Basically. That table does exist, and is being shared - friend to friend. And it has even had some updates. So, if you are a dick - you might not get your hands on it

I think there are a lot of tables hidden behind the walls haha

[Thalamus]

Not that I know of. I know of 4-5 tables where the resources has been ripped from commercial digital products. GB is one of them of course. Tables has been released with community crated PF's - and then there is the "friend" version; with better looking plastics and playfields, still plays exactly the same. I can of course, not be 100% sure. But, after so many years in this community, I at least have a strong feeling that what I'm telling you is correct.

[LynnInDenver]

6 hours ago, Gedankekojote97 said:

Well i think you are right, but i dont understand why Stern is not coperating with the community of VPX…because not all of us can efford a brand new Stern machine so VPX is a perfekt solution for all of us to enjoy those pinball tables.

 

And my opinion is, that pinball arcade is trash…compared to vpx .

Giving Pinball Arcade thos licences but not offering something for VPX (like that you can purchase the Roms or something else) but yeah…its all about money i guess

 

 

Yes, there needs to be money involved. It would involve someone having to pay Stern money to license the tables, and given the amount of money involved, then the tables involved would need to be paid for by the end user... and certain segments of the "community" would insist that this violates the "non commercial" clause of the license for VPX itself, and the community rules as well.

 

Also, remember that Stern is into making a physical product... and as far as they're concerned, except for what they licensed to Farsight to make digitally, if we can't afford the product, then we're not part of the market anyway... and even then, we can just go give money to an operator that put the machines on location, or make friends with someone who can afford to assemble their own home pinball arcade.

[Gedankekojote97]

7 hours ago, Thalamus said:

Not that I know of. I know of 4-5 tables where the resources has been ripped from commercial digital products. GB is one of them of course. Tables has been released with community crated PF's - and then there is the "friend" version; with better looking plastics and playfields, still plays exactly the same. I can of course, not be 100% sure. But, after so many years in this community, I at least have a strong feeling that what I'm telling you is correct.

I like those "friend" versions a lot more haha

 

[Gedankekojote97]

7 hours ago, Thalamus said:

Not that I know of. I know of 4-5 tables where the resources has been ripped from commercial digital products. GB is one of them of course. Tables has been released with community crated PF's - and then there is the "friend" version; with better looking plastics and playfields, still plays exactly the same. I can of course, not be 100% sure. But, after so many years in this community, I at least have a strong feeling that what I'm telling you is correct.

I have done a few "friend" version upgrades, but sadly without the permission of the table creator i cant release them :S

[Gedankekojote97]

3 hours ago, LynnInDenver said:

 

Yes, there needs to be money involved. It would involve someone having to pay Stern money to license the tables, and given the amount of money involved, then the tables involved would need to be paid for by the end user... and certain segments of the "community" would insist that this violates the "non commercial" clause of the license for VPX itself, and the community rules as well.

 

Also, remember that Stern is into making a physical product... and as far as they're concerned, except for what they licensed to Farsight to make digitally, if we can't afford the product, then we're not part of the market anyway... and even then, we can just go give money to an operator that put the machines on location, or make friends with someone who can afford to assemble their own home pinball arcade.

Its all about the money yeah.

But i mean okey....they sell their physical products to people who can afford them and stuff but i think it would be possible to make maybe a subscription system.

Like someone from the vpx community or the guys behind vpx or mame could make coperation with stern, develop together a emulator that runs the stern spike stuff with vpx and publishing the emulator not as freeware but with a subscription to pay 10 dollars a month and get a key that activates the emulator....so stern get their money for a licence or the product, and the virtual community can afford and play those tables...this would be so easy 

[Darkstar]

49 minutes ago, Gedankekojote97 said:

Its all about the money yeah.

But i mean okey....they sell their physical products to people who can afford them and stuff but i think it would be possible to make maybe a subscription system.

Like someone from the vpx community or the guys behind vpx or mame could make coperation with stern, develop together a emulator that runs the stern spike stuff with vpx and publishing the emulator not as freeware but with a subscription to pay 10 dollars a month and get a key that activates the emulator....so stern get their money for a licence or the product, and the virtual community can afford and play those tables...this would be so easy 

It’s been a long time, but if you ever saw that interview with Gary talking about copyright, you’d get why such a thing would be unlikely on the scale your pointing at.. Around that time it was pretty obvious Gary saw the community code to actually make the Jurassic Park machine an actual Jurassic Park machine, instead of a dinosaur machine with Nedry, one song and the logo. It didn’t take them very long to even change their EULA around that time also. (I’m a firm believer the online crap they have now will become more and more conniving, such as check sums being sent on boot and downloadable content/paywall)…. I don’t think “working with the people” is much in their vocabulary….for years they have promised certain things point blank that will be changed….some over a decade they still haven’t fixed. The people have spoken for years upon years and they just don’t change. 

 

I’d think they would look more into that type of thing if people started choking them out a little more, protesting with their wallets to look for better options….a bit like books stores didn’t survive unless they went digital somehow. Alas, Stern has a large,  rabid fan base that will buy anything as long as it’s new, without taking into consideration the pricing, quality etc…I just mean they will keep rinse and repeating because that’s all they need to do right now. 

 

To give credit where credit is due, they are pretty smart in mostly being cool about VPX. The model of such things have always worked… or put another way….Metallica was wrong during Napster and that era will haunt them forever….most usually when groups scream “This is going to hurt us”, we have a mountain of statistics showing it did the opposite of harm on that type of topic.