Newbie question: Why do some tables start in 2 or more player mode (and how to revert to one player)?

[Yskonyn]

I've been able to setup my virtual cabinet nicely with a few tables, running an animated backglass and a proper DMD on a second monitor! I've been enjoying several tables, but I have two questions:

 

1) Why do some tables run in multiplayer (party?) mode? And how can I revert the table to singleplayer mode?

 

2)The Stargate table's ROM tests fine in PinMAME setup, but once I start the table in VPX the DMD shows the following message: "Switch Short Return 5/6". It prevents the table from playing. What does it mean and how can I fix it?

 

Many thanks! This community is awesome!

[Thalamus]

1) Your question is kind of incomplete. There are machines that where created being 1 player only. So, yeah - you don't want to make them being anything else.

 

2) I suggest - ALWAYS, since this site is the only only one that I know of that has very close, if no a complete rom set - to start setup.exe - then look at all the rom names that goes into the series of "stargate" - go up to the upper right corner and put in the exact rom name including the zip extension. Download them all, and put them into the roms folder. This site has is the most complete and accurate rom collection of them all ( except gottlieb ) around. It is however using so called split sets, meaning, if you don't have the "main" rom, downloading a "child", you won't be complete. In other words. Downloading just the rom mentioned in the game, might not be enough. You should use setup.exe - if you're lazy, guess what is the "mother" (often the biggest download). Added benefit of having them all, is, if you want to see the history of the rules, you can, with this sites help. VPF, IPDB has several roms that won't work, because they have not kept up with pinmame updates. This site has. For gottlieb, search for the rom name and put the name "nirvana" into the search pattern

[Yskonyn]

Thalamus thanks for your reply.

I assumed the amount of players was some kind of switch.

For example; I played the Miraculous table with my son just now and the first round it was in 2 player mode whereas the second round it switched to 3 player more. I have no idea why.

 

Another example was the Indiana Jones table, which runs in two player mode all the time. 
 

So I wonder if there is a script entry or some kind of toggle I can use to change the amount of players active?

 

Thanks for the rom tip! I’ll look into downloading more versions.

[Thalamus]

Tables CAN be, in some cases be controlled via DIP switches. Those are generally OLD machines. It kind of depends on date and manufacturer actually. inkognito, did a hell of a job, going through schematics, making this DIPS switch scheme. So, if the table supports it, press F6 after statrt the game, and you can change the switches and rules. There are tables where it will only show dip1, dip2, dip3 etc. Then you will need to download the manual and figure out what settings you want, OR improve on the script yourself. Destruk posted almost a decade ago the details needed on that subject over at vpf.

 

This is NOT always a hobby for those that want to just download - press play and expect that everything is setup as they prefer. It is virtual, it has a millions of options to be honest if you really want to change something. But, in most cases, the hard work is already done by the community members. Looking at the script, is very often essential to get things working the way you want it. For me, pr. example. I don't want Superman to play music from the film. I want it to play like the real machine. It is a simple - open the tables, look at the script and turning off the option that says to splay un-original crap from the emulation.  Others, I'm sure - Terry, would love it to have some superman moves flying over the playfield.

 

[Yskonyn]

Heh, thanks again! 
The fact that this is a hobby for the tinkerers is a bonus as far as I am concerned. I love that stuff, but only if documentation or tips on where to look is available. Its rather pointless to just start fiddling in scripts or options without having at least some basic knowledge.

 

[Thalamus]

Yes. Documentation is in the scripts and forums. That is why you don't just buy a cab pre installed. You won't be able to appreciate if or even understand the possibilities, without the "curiosity" needed. It is a hobby for the tinkerers, loving pinball - for sure.

[Yskonyn]

I am just super proud at the moment that I have managed to go from a PinballFX3 setup to a much more advanced VPX, FreezyDMD, Animated Backglass setup in just two days! 
This community is instrumental in that!

I also feel I might have jumped into a rabbit hole; I see new cool stuff on an hourly basis. 😀

[Thalamus]

Yeah. Well. Fx3 looks good, still played crap. FP, looks good, plays even worse, no matter how much BAM crap you put into it. My suggestion, delete everything. Install, VPX. Install tables from Bord, BorgDog, JPSalas, VPW, Knorr, Loserman and Flupper. From that you will get all well playing games. I've mod' a couple of tables myself, pr. example BSD. It was very well done by the possibilities  from VPX at that time of release. I honestly believe that I did improve on it. Perfect ? Oh, no, by no means to I think so. I'm sure, with some efforts by the brightest, it can be improved. Maybe not 100% to my liking, because I had a specific feel to it in mind. All these machines, even though they are made "the same", will play differently going from one place to the next is not going to play 100% the same. They are man made, not by robots. They have been transported from maybe one place with X amount of humidity vs Y ... for ages. It is wood, etc.

 

Rubbers, over time, will start to loose "bounciness" . Change them, or some, changes the game radically. From the original gameplay ? Hmmm. Maybe, are we 100% sure that the rubbers made in the 70' compound is the same as the replacement ? I doubt it to be honest.

 

Get my drift ? Don't be afraid of adjusting tables created if you don't think they play as you want them to. Personally, I believe there is still some MAJOR issues that needs to be addressed, mostly to the flippers in order to make them perfect. But, there is one thing I pretty sure of though. VP is the best emulator out there, by far.

[Yskonyn]

I know what you mean and I can tell you’re quite passionate about pinball!

Thanks for the author tips. I’ll look for work done by them.

 

I am not really a all or nothing guy. Even though I also ‘feel’ that the physics in FX3 are different (though their classic mode physics are quite ok on the newer tables) I still enjoy FX3 for what it offers.

Not a fan of all the interference on the playscreen by animated characters, but for several tables you can disable that crap luckily. Hopefully the upcoming FX will give us ample customization options.

 

That said, my original question doesn’t seem to have gotten an answer (or maybe I am just thickheaded, lol): Is there a (easy) way to select or change the amount of players the table should track in VPX?

[Wylte]

What tables specifically are you unable to start in single player?

[Yskonyn]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, @Wylte.

 

I think I might be on the track of the issue;

I have assigned but the Plunger and Start Game to the same button, but sometimes pressing it too quickly in sequence before the game starts it will up the player count.

 

But if you can increase it, I would assume you can also decrease it, but that doesn't seem to work with any of the buttons (tried keyboard just to test).

Is there a combination of keys I need to use to decrease player count, or can you only reset it by reloading the table?

 

In hindsight I don't think Indiana Jones actually starts in 2 player mode all the time, but goes into it when pressing the button too quickly.

It would be nice to discover how to consistently control this, though. Tips are appreciated.

[Thalamus]

Tip is- don't assign essential keys to the same button

[Yskonyn]

1 hour ago, Thalamus said:

Tip is- don't assign essential keys to the same button

That’s solid advice, but not the point though. 
If an option can be increased, it should be able to be decreased with a different key, right?

[TerryRed]

The thing is.... everyone has different experiences with with their exposure to pinball. For some, its about recapturing their youth and the games they grew up with. For others, they simply want something that is cool for their tastes and what they like.

 

I personally have no emotional attachment to most pinball games, as I only dabbled in pinball in the 80's and 90's and played mostly arcade video games. So tables before the 80's, I never even saw let alone played. It wasn't until the last 8 or so years that I got into pinball... and even then I don't get access to real pins often.

 

Don't ever assume that everyone likes the same thing. Some want the original tables to be exact replicas, as that is what they value as they want what they used to play to be the same. Others would love to see crappy quality mono sounds and music replaced with a much better modern option, or maybe completely different art.

 

I can see some gorgeous recreations of older / EM tables painstakingly done, and I will try them... but their lack of sounds / music and their chimes is something I just can't get into (and my dogs would bark forever from the chimes, lol). So I probably won't "play" them as much. If I grew up with them, then I would be loving them that much more. That said, I do LOVE the neat mechanical aspect of EM's and the uniqueness of some of those tables and their features.

 

Take that same table, and add some modern sounds and music, and now I can enjoy... heck sometimes LOVE a table I never would have bothered with.

 

Yes, I would LOVE to have an animated Superman on the table... and have him fire heat vision, blow the ball with super breath, maybe even freeze it in place, etc. Lots of fun stuff can be done. Stranger Things has an animated Demogorgon. Anything like that, doesn't detract from the 1000's of other tables for the pinball purists to enjoy. For the rest of us... we'll enjoy some actual "new" tables, instead of the same tables made over and over again.... and maybe we'll enjoy some improved older ones as well. Maybe even... you'll get some new talent in the hobby.

 

If I only listened to others and stuck to what I typically like... then I never would have bothered with VPX at all. Thankfully I'm a big boy who is willing to try different things and make up my own mind about what I like. Otherwise I never would have eventually been part of this community. VPX opened up a whole world of pinball I never would have known. The same can be said for those who only play VPX and real pins. There are many great tables on FP / FX3 / Zaccaria, etc that they may enjoy.

 

Just saying... RetroFlair 2 and Silent Hill are looking f'ing amazing and doing things VPX will never be able to do (if VPX could... I'd be making them on VPX).  It'd be a shame for someone who may enjoy these tables to miss out because someone told them to not even bother. So try what you are interested in... and make up your own mind.
 

 

 

 

[Yskonyn]

@TerryRed I can totally relate to your views. There’s already enough polarization going on at various places online, especially social

platforms and not enough nuance and grey. People are either for or against. 
I do not want any part of that. There is no reason things cannot (and should not) exist next to each other and be enjoyed on their own merits.

Intel/AMD, Boeing/Airbus, yadda yadda.

My remark above about ‘moving from FX3 to VPX’ was poorly worded. VPX has not replaced FX3. They co-exist on my machine and both get ample playtime.

 

Anyway, on another note thanks for having taken the time to make your guide!

I am following it step by step and have managed to get VPX up and running with B2S backglasses and working DMD’s!

 

I am now looking into the whole PinUp system to see what that’s all about.

 

Talking about the rabbit hole, I’ve also come to the conclusion I want to replace my gamecontroller board with a Pinscape chip to have true nudging and more options to connect buttons and stuff.

 

I am a little worried I will run out of space on my bartop model however and might need to start a bigger build once I have become comfortable with all the parts on my bartop. Still I very much like the portability of a bartop model…. Choices…

[Wylte]

4 hours ago, Yskonyn said:

That’s solid advice, but not the point though. 
If an option can be increased, it should be able to be decreased with a different key, right?

On an original table, the author sure could if they wanted!  I don't know of any with the option, though.  On a rom?  Nope, just not how they were made.  You put in enough coins for two people and press the start button twice and you're playing for two

[Yskonyn]

4 minutes ago, Wylte said:

On an original table, the author sure could if they wanted!  I don't know of any with the option, though.  On a rom?  Nope, just not how they were made.  You put in enough coins for two people and press the start button twice and you're playing for two

Ha! Alright, my logic is does not withstand the limitation of the rom then . 😀

 

Its pretty cool though that we emulate with the original code however! 

[VPDDouche]

Wow never new about this well told terry