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After being blown away by Siggi's recent Star Wars Triliogy mod. I'm pretty obsessed with this table and I feel like it needs a color ROM to match.   I'm fairly new to Vpin and also Pinball as a hobby in general.    

 

I've watched Netzwerg's tutorials a few times and feel like it's something within my reach with some patience.  I'm self motivated, not really skilled in coding, somewhat artistic but not an artist by any means and have a fair amount of free time.  I'm looking for some advice and maybe even a little encouragement.   I saw this table on a previous WIP list but no files, I guess I'll need to start from scratch?  There seems to be quite a few animated scenes/transitions (boba fet video mode looks difficult in general) - Is this table to ambitious for my first go at this?

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Hey @gubbin,

 

Sounds like a great project to start. I don't seem to have any dumps on hand for this game, but @roboclan3 "may" be able to assist. Happy to work with Rob to get you started if he can help. @Wob may also be able to get you some vpin dumps if he has time. 

 

I wouldn't start worrying about video mode or any complex scenes just yet. If you want to get started I would suggest going over the videos a few times as well as the resources that Lucky1 has provided, then pick some basic scenes and try your hand at colouring them. As you progress you can ask the community if you get stuck and I am sure there will be someone to give you some advice. If you want to upload your progress so others can contribute down the track that is always welcomed but not required.

 

If you are mainly Vpin based and are already playing the table on your PC, you can easily start dumping the game yourself and importing those into the editor. You can see how to do that from the steps from the Pin2DMD editor page.

 

Check out these resources and have a play around with the editor.

Good luck!

 

Pin2DMD Colouring tutorial Video by NetzZwerg

Pin2DMD LCM Mode tutorial Video by NetzZwerg

Editor Overview

Editor Tutorial

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Thanks for the advice @Terranigma!  I was able to pull a couple of dumps last night from my cab, obviously going take some time to get them all but I think I have a start.  I was able to get the .txt into gzip and load them into a project.  My plan is to follow along with the Netzzwerg tutorials and jump right in.  I'm excited about the opportunity to contribute to this great community! 

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Looking good! Thanks for sharing.

 

If any of those scenes don't contain any dynamic content and play the same each time through, consider (if you haven't already) colouring them as a replace scene. It will give you more control over the colouring as well as the triggering/playback during the game. You can easily switch and then add extra detail, like the black in the Star Wars title screen, you could fill the text to be the darker gold colour similar to the side art of the machine and have the more lighter gold as the surround. If you wanted to go even further you could add a texture to the text to make it really stand out.

Also, the way it's done now stands out and may be the look you're going for, so that works too. I am more giving an example of what's possible with the editor rather than your choice of colours.

 

The Tie Fighter wings could be a slightly different shade of darker grey (example only as they are supposed to be black) but as it stands they look a little bit like early wire frame graphics, but that also is what the source is showing so a lot of this can't be helped.

 

This is just an example, your own style and way of doing things is totally up to you.

 

When using a colour mask for these scenes you will be much more limited. Also make sure you have selected 64 colours in your project in settings. I'm assuming the very latest version defaults to this now, so you should be set, but just in case I would double check.

 

Keep up the good work!

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6 hours ago, Terranigma said:

Looking good! Thanks for sharing.

 

If any of those scenes don't contain any dynamic content and play the same each time through, consider (if you haven't already) colouring them as a replace scene. It will give you more control over the colouring as well as the triggering/playback during the game. You can easily switch and then add extra detail, like the black in the Star Wars title screen, you could fill the text to be the darker gold colour similar to the side art of the machine and have the more lighter gold as the surround. If you wanted to go even further you could add a texture to the text to make it really stand out.

Also, the way it's done now stands out and may be the look you're going for, so that works too. I am more giving an example of what's possible with the editor rather than your choice of colours.

 

The Tie Fighter wings could be a slightly different shade of darker grey (example only as they are supposed to be black) but as it stands they look a little bit like early wire frame graphics, but that also is what the source is showing so a lot of this can't be helped.

 

This is just an example, your own style and way of doing things is totally up to you.

 

When using a colour mask for these scenes you will be much more limited. Also make sure you have selected 64 colours in your project in settings. I'm assuming the very latest version defaults to this now, so you should be set, but just in case I would double check.

 

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely just learning my way around the tool and all the lingo/terms. I didn't realize I could use those lower rows of colors!  The tut I was watching only had the 4 sets of 4.  

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Still working my way around the editor.  I have a question about dynamic content.  This ball count in the upper right hand corner isn't on the preview there.  Does that mean I'll need to make a scene for each ball?  I'm also assuming I can use the color mask /d-mask for the player count? 

 

image.thumb.png.fcde21ba70c11b621af42c7c8312c374.png

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10 hours ago, gubbin said:

Still working my way around the editor.  I have a question about dynamic content.  This ball count in the upper right hand corner isn't on the preview there.  Does that mean I'll need to make a scene for each ball?  I'm also assuming I can use the color mask /d-mask for the player count? 

 

I am not familiar enough with this game to know exactly what the scene is, but if it is a match screen at the end of the game you can use an LCM to show each possible dynamic content combination such as the match score cycle. If it is during the game you will still need to work out what content is dynamic and what is static and choose the appropriate method.

 

To trigger the scene you could detect the word "Player" as that should be static, although I can't be sure unless I see more. Keep in mind if there is a 2, 3 or 4 player game and this adds those players to the scene, you will have to also take them into account when you apply a mask and also for detection. If for example the word Player is always there but the number (1,2,3,4) changes, then you can confidently detect the word Player or part of it (remember to re use your masks!) as it won't change. This is just an example and you will need to take into account all extra possibilities of this scene, such as Vader himself and if the Player 2 is a whole new word and location instead of just the number 1 changing to 2.

 

As for the missing ball count, have you switched this scene from a different type? If not, try advancing the frame by 1 to see if it changes at all in the preview. You can also get this if you have a replace scene and cover the area then switch back to a colour mask. Your original data in the top window will keep the changes from when it was in replace, but what you see below can show differently.

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2 hours ago, Terranigma said:

 

I am not familiar enough with this game to know exactly what the scene is, but if it is a match screen at the end of the game you can use an LCM to show each possible dynamic content combination such as the match score cycle. If it is during the game you will still need to work out what content is dynamic and what is static and choose the appropriate method.

 

To trigger the scene you could detect the word "Player" as that should be static, although I can't be sure unless I see more. Keep in mind if there is a 2, 3 or 4 player game and this adds those players to the scene, you will have to also take them into account when you apply a mask and also for detection. If for example the word Player is always there but the number (1,2,3,4) changes, then you can confidently detect the word Player or part of it (remember to re use your masks!) as it won't change. This is just an example and you will need to take into account all extra possibilities of this scene, such as Vader himself and if the Player 2 is a whole new word and location instead of just the number 1 changing to 2.

 

As for the missing ball count, have you switched this scene from a different type? If not, try advancing the frame by 1 to see if it changes at all in the preview. You can also get this if you have a replace scene and cover the area then switch back to a colour mask. Your original data in the top window will keep the changes from when it was in replace, but what you see below can show differently.

So I went back to the source dump and that's actually the score and not the ball count.  I'm not really sure how to explain this, as I'm still figuring out the hashes.  The score is there, in the preview if I click on the 2nd hash checkbox but not the first.  But the detail on his helmet looks different in the 2nd. 

 

image.png.91b2d713c836288ae49f19381cdaeb34.png

 

image.png.8724636f37ec9a1ca064289197ebf7fa.png

 

Am I able to export to .pac once I have some keyframing done?  Meaning, will the game just only  colorize the parts I have completed and leave the others normal? 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, gubbin said:

So I went back to the source dump and that's actually the score and not the ball count.  I'm not really sure how to explain this, as I'm still figuring out the hashes.  The score is there, in the preview if I click on the 2nd hash checkbox but not the first.  But the detail on his helmet looks different in the 2nd. 

 

You are seeing the different planes here and each have their own hash. You can choose which plane/hash to use for your key framing. When you selected a different plane it will show you the preview for what is included in that plane and you can plan to keyframe accordingly. There is more advanced uses as well such as priority etc but for now just use the one that has the data that you want to keyframe off of.

 

28 minutes ago, gubbin said:

Am I able to export to .pac once I have some keyframing done?  Meaning, will the game just only  colorize the parts I have completed and leave the others normal? 

 

As long as you have assigned your new palette and keyframes to the scenes, you can export your file and test it. The game will only colour the scenes you have assigned a palette and colouring to, providing you have keyframed them correctly. If you see your scenes work partially or not at all, it could mean you are triggering from the wrong part or you are missing important frames that aren't assigned any trigger. 

You can also customise the default palette so your base colours when there is no specific colouring will show your own set of colours. 

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Well, I got the Vader head turning scene kinda working with the scores masked in a different color.  Player 1-6 seem to work dynamically with that color. I used that 2nd plane hash and that seems to have done it.

 

I'm not sure how to capture video from my dmd to show it.  The first few attract scenes hum right along and then a few scenes in it, hangs until the next triggered scene. Single screen scenes are working but I'm missing something on the multi scene'd ones.  Once I start a game there's a scene that it hangs on and won't ever clear.  

 

I also have no idea how to  keep these initials / scores masked in a "scrolling up" scene like this.

high-scores.gif.2d7f979ade61f3158014cf9cf1f1ee4a.gif 

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2 hours ago, gubbin said:

I have to be missing something silly.  The first couple of scenes play no issues, then they just hang up.  I used popper to grab some footage.  Anyone have ideas?

 

https://imgur.com/a/JOEKOCt

 

 

Figured out my issue.

 

Those scenes were created in color mask and I still don't have a good grasp on what the mask/dmask is doing.  I guess they weren't fully triggering.  I changed them to replace and MOST of the attract scenes are working.  

 

Some things to do next:

1.  Figure out the scrolling high score masking

2. Vader head scene is only working on ball 1

3.  Some of the attract scenes are too fast- Possibly delay?

4.  Start on the complex/scoring scenes 🤔

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6 hours ago, gubbin said:

Those scenes were created in color mask and I still don't have a good grasp on what the mask/dmask is doing.  I guess they weren't fully triggering.  I changed them to replace and MOST of the attract scenes are working.  

 

It is a good idea to use the replace mode on scenes that have no dynamic content at all. You will need to make sure the frames from the source as well as the timing is correct otherwise it can cut off too early or continue into other scenes. If it is too short, look at the timing and delay of the original frames and make sure you have captured everything. If it is too long or hanging up, you may not have the next scene triggered correctly and it is waiting for a new keyframe to start the next scene or your delay could be off. Even with replace scenes you still need to make sure your key framing is correct, you will want to make sure your scenes are cut into the appropriate sections so you can deal with each one individually with more control.

 

1. I haven't had a look at the scrolling yet but that is a transition and you will need to deal with these across many scenes. A good way to learn is to look for other games that may have a similar transition and if the project is public, download and have a look through and see how they have done it. Please be aware that some projects handle things differently and may not be appropriate for your specific scene. It is still a great guide to see how things work and it's best if you can choose a project with a very complete end result rather than one that still has issues.

2. If Vader is only working on ball 1 then your keyframe may not be compensating for ball 2,3 etc. If you can take a screen shot of your detection mask for the Vader scene we can see how it is done and advise.

3. See above regarding attract.

4. You will need to look at your detection masks as an overall picture, as masks are limited you want to try and re use as many as possible throughout the game. For example, if you can use a detection mask on the word "Player" to trigger the vader scene, that may also come in handy for some attract modes or other modes that have different data in that same areas as the word "Ball". Assuming that mask is a rectangle and covers "Ball", try and go through the game and see ahead of time if any other scenes when the word "ball" is not visible have any data in that area for the start of a scene that can be triggered as the first frame or a reoccurring frame that is always present as your anchor.

 

There are many ways to do things and these are just an example. Without looking at the source I can't give you the best possible solution, but it is also good to learn as you go and keep trying things to find out what is best for you.

 

Hopefully this makes sense and if anyone has anything else to add, feel free to join in.

 

Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Terranigma said:

 

It is a good idea to use the replace mode on scenes that have no dynamic content at all. You will need to make sure the frames from the source as well as the timing is correct otherwise it can cut off too early or continue into other scenes. If it is too short, look at the timing and delay of the original frames and make sure you have captured everything. If it is too long or hanging up, you may not have the next scene triggered correctly and it is waiting for a new keyframe to start the next scene or your delay could be off. Even with replace scenes you still need to make sure your key framing is correct, you will want to make sure your scenes are cut into the appropriate sections so you can deal with each one individually with more control.

 

1. I haven't had a look at the scrolling yet but that is a transition and you will need to deal with these across many scenes. A good way to learn is to look for other games that may have a similar transition and if the project is public, download and have a look through and see how they have done it. Please be aware that some projects handle things differently and may not be appropriate for your specific scene. It is still a great guide to see how things work and it's best if you can choose a project with a very complete end result rather than one that still has issues.

2. If Vader is only working on ball 1 then your keyframe may not be compensating for ball 2,3 etc. If you can take a screen shot of your detection mask for the Vader scene we can see how it is done and advise.

3. See above regarding attract.

4. You will need to look at your detection masks as an overall picture, as masks are limited you want to try and re use as many as possible throughout the game. For example, if you can use a detection mask on the word "Player" to trigger the vader scene, that may also come in handy for some attract modes or other modes that have different data in that same areas as the word "Ball". Assuming that mask is a rectangle and covers "Ball", try and go through the game and see ahead of time if any other scenes when the word "ball" is not visible have any data in that area for the start of a scene that can be triggered as the first frame or a reoccurring frame that is always present as your anchor.

 

There are many ways to do things and these are just an example. Without looking at the source I can't give you the best possible solution, but it is also good to learn as you go and keep trying things to find out what is best for you.

 

Hopefully this makes sense and if anyone has anything else to add, feel free to join in.

 

Thanks.

Thanks so much.  You've been a tremendous help and if anything it's a confidence boost to be able to sound board my learning process.   I tried to load up some of the abandon projects and was getting some errors, I'll look through some of the available completed ones for inspirations, that's great advice.  

 

I think I'm still struggling with the concept of the detection mask.  I was thinking it needed to cover anything that wasn't "dynamic" but you're saying it only needs to touch a piece of the static content?   

 

This is how I have it currently:

 

image.thumb.png.3033d653a15f92318fd824ccfdde8638.png

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19 hours ago, gubbin said:

I think I'm still struggling with the concept of the detection mask.  I was thinking it needed to cover anything that wasn't "dynamic" but you're saying it only needs to touch a piece of the static content?   

 

 

For the context below, I am talking about detection masks. These will look different to other masks.

 

It all depends on a variety of factors. You have a set number of detection masks, so you want to try and re use these on other scenes throughout the game so you don't run out. 

Sometimes you can get 3/4 through a project and realise you have 0 masks left and you may have to rework them to fit multiple scenes at once so you can make more available and cover more scenes.

 

This is just an example and may not apply to Star Wars, I'm not the best at explaining these things so if anyone wants to jump in feel free.

 

If the Vader scene has dynamic content such as the player number "1" and the score which is "oo" in your screenshot, then these shouldn't be masked. This is because it will detect the data in the mask and will look for the "1" and "00" every time. If your player number changes, it's not a big deal, just make a new detection for player 2 etc using the same mask (a longer one covering the 1), but if there are 6 players you need to make 6 different detections, it isn't ideal.

The problem really starts with dynamic content when you cover the score, you could have a massive number of possibilities and this is not an effective way to do this, plus it would mean you would have to capture every score combination imaginable, which would take you forever.

 

So we use a detection mask on anything that is static and doesn't change. This could mean for that scene it never changes (such as the word player) or we could use a different static part which appears at the start of the scene 100% of the time so we can trigger the beginning, maybe Vader always starts with looking right with  100% of the pixels appearing in the first frame every time. This is where you need to think about the best way to make use of your masks.

 

A pure example is below, again it may not apply here, and there is a better way to do this for the second picture I am showing. Find out if Player 1 appears in this scene only or if it appears in other parts of the game without Vader. If it appears in other scenes then you will need to add an extra part to the mask to detect something additional to the word Player 1, such as Vaders collar.  If it appears ONLY in this scene then you could do a detection like this below:

 

image.thumb.png.fcde21ba70c11b621af42c7c8312c374.png.332e549e1f422e0f971d85bb18496f42.png

 

Notice the shape of the detection, now you want to skim your entire recordings to find any other static locations that this mask could be used in. Below is an example only and may not be ideal, but you should get the idea.

 

mask.png.a565e0b20925c207434a1d5e247f2c2d.png

 

This only works if the figure on the left hand of the screen appears as static content, so you're only detecting a faction of the image, but it doesn't matter as long as that part is static and doesn't appear elsewhere in the game. There are exceptions to this but I won't go into that now.

 

For the "Next shot scores" scene, IF you found the game seems to have these modes in the same layout throughout the game, a better mask might be this, (which would negate the Vader mask)

 

mask2.png.5c3b88775daca6859d2913cb5039f4c7.png

 

This mask assumes that there are multiple scenes that have static text where "Next shot scores" is positioned and doesn't contain any dynamic content. So say the next scene shows "Hit bumpers for 200,000" in the same location, your mask can detect the words but will leave the dynamic score and countdown alone. Because it is detecting new data such as the "Hit bumpers for 200,000" that will give a different trigger and allow you to apply colours to the rest of the scene differently to the "next shot scores" scene.

If however the first detection mask we used for player 1 is where the other scenes never change (the top of the c3po suit) then it may be better to use that to detect. 

Unless you go through each scene and prepare a visual map of your intended masks, I couldn't really give exact answers to each scene, which would be best for you to try anyways.

 

On the flip side, the second detection mask that covers "Next shot scores" may be able to be used on Vader as well as long as it doesn't cover any dynamic content, instead of the first example covering "Player".

 

Again, these examples don't take into account any other scenes of the game or the context of each scene besides the single frames shown and you may want to experiment with other things.

Also check your type of mask/scene, the earlier shots are colormask but the later is a colormask sequence. You may or may not need this and if you do, you will need to correctly cut up the scene and detect each frame.

 

I hope that makes sense!

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I don't have a single thing to add other than how inspiring this entire thread is. I'm glued to the edge of my seat! Incredibly fascinating and I admire the dive-in attitude you have @gubbin!

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you only have 25 masks pre project

 

y0u should not make masks that can only be used on one scene or you will quickly run out of masks

 

make the shape of the mask so that you can use it on multiple scenes.

something like this. You will be able to use the same masks for any frame that has dynamic content outside the blue box

 

Inkedimage.jpg

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@Terranigma and @Pinballuser  Your comments are extremally  helpful.  There are definitely going to be more dynamic scenes than masks available.  I appreciate the input.  I should have some more time tomorrow to put some work into dynamic scenes and see how I do. 

 

@Cliffy Thanks!  This community is so inspiring.  I've never really had an interest in a full table design.  Some of my favorite tables are ones that the folks here have made color roms for, so I figured I'd give it a go!

 

Meanwhile, here's a couple more scenes.  I added some blue to the planet of the star destroyer.  I've also colored all the falcon multiball loop progression scenes.  

 

There's 5 of these.  It seems the N lit one doesn't exist as it goes straight into the multiball on that shot.

 falcon-mb2-l.gif.d25c2c07919fa92d6e8a6d032a0412bf.gif

 

 

destroyer-flyover-L.gif.939388391ee77d00c4136904b0b14546.gif

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  Using suggestions on the mask/demask.  I was able to get the High score scenes to work dynamically.    In fact,  Using the Vader's collar suggestion seems to cover at least those scenes and looking like several others with a border along the bottom there!  I exported the Pac and tested.  Looks good.  Cleared NVRAM to strip out some of my high scores and it appears to still be working!  Small victories!📣🥳.  Interestingly enough, once I corrected the scores scene, some of the before/after scenes delay/timing issues also seem to have cleared up.  

 

Looks like all the falcon progression scenes are triggering correctly , at least in minimal testing.  

 

Next I'm going to tinker with the vader scene on Ball 2/3 etc.  It's currently only triggering on Ball 1

 

Also Need to put some work on the coin/credit interactions

 

coin-L.gif.d5079fa387e97c161842496ba437e0b3.gif

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