Sam Pinmame?

[unclewilly]

It's really low key that one of the Sam tables has even been released here. I'm on a lot of the pinball forums and get pms all the time asking for Sam repeated stuff like tables and roms.

I truely hope a c&d order isn't in our future.

[DeeGor]

FP has had Stern tables for awhile.  Nothing has come from it.

 

If we stay away from stuff currently in production we will probably be fine.

[DStruct]

Yeah. The Dark Knight, Iron Man, Tron and Avatar have all been out in FP for quite some time, and there's never been any issue arise from it. I seriously doubt the lack of rom support matters.

I still see there being a need to limit releases to those machines not currently being manufactured (with a little time given for distributor sell-through), but the rule that states we can't release SAM tables until three years after the end of the SAM platform ends is obviously antiquated.

[Itchigo]

the rule that states we can't release SAM tables until three years after the end of the SAM platform ends is obviously antiquated.

That's always the way I have heard it. But as Deegor put it "Currently in production" is what I gathered. (Couldn't find the right choice of words before- brain fart).

 

Honestly though he's aware of us (community, not this site in particular), unless a problem arises, he doesn't even know we're here.

[MTPPC]

I call bullshit on "the rule".

[DStruct]

Whether "the rule" is/was "bullshit," it's obviously not current, and, in my opinion, should now be completely open for further evaluation (as was already the case, here).

[oooPLAYER1ooo]

bullshit? 

been around the emulation scene total for many more yrs that i would like to admit but last time i checked this was the rule in place for arcade Mame also and vpinmame is licensed under the same license.

 

the 3 year rule is a long standing one for all emulation etiquette.

but to my understanding it was 3 yrs out of production. its not our fault that stern has stuck with the same system for so many yrs that a 8 yr old table cant be emulated.

[DStruct]

I think he was referring to the "3 years after the end of the SAM platform" rule.

[MTPPC]

I'm saying it's all bullshit. I'll paste my comments from another thread in another forum:

 

 

This whole topic is a bunch of BS. Everyone who trades in emulation is in violation of trademark or copyright. The idea of a couple of representatives negotiating agreement with "Jack and Gary" is laughable. The idea that "Jack and Gary" see emulation as a threat is totally untrue. I asked Stern's marketing manager at CES2013 what they thought about emulation and he said they saw it as a "gateway to the real thing". If "Jack and Gary" see pinmame as something that decreases their IP's value, then they are wrong. If they see emulation as a an alternative to the real thing, then they don't understand the value of the real thing. Emulation does nothing but provide an interactive commercial advertising for their unique products for free. Do you think General Motors would be mad if there were opensource racing simulators of all their current production cars that an enthusiastic community developed and promoted for free? There's just something wrong with the entire MAME scene because the masters of it are afraid of punitive (and wrongful) litigation.

 

But none of that really matters anyway. They release their code for free. They do nothing to protect it and by law that means that ALL use of it is fair (in the legal sense of the term). Table IP owners have a right to a royalty if someone else profits from their IP. They also have a right to damages if someone damages them in their market. Neither of these things are taking place.

 

I expect all the Stern SAM VP tables to be available shortly.

 

 

...

 

What I am saying is that people can do whatever they want, but when you dabble in emulation, only an extreme minority of folks are "within their rights". But this doesn't really matter because it would be foolish for any of the IP holders to establish a legal precedent defining emulation as legitimate when they can slither around in the murky waters of an unresolved legality. In all likelyhood, the courts would find that emulation (as practiced today) does not result in any harm to the IP holders which, ironically in turn, would probably lead to direct damage to IP holders.

 

It's all defensive posturing and totally unnecessary. Good luck to any pinball manufacturers or ip holders who think they can prove damage or harm by emulation. And they'll need a lot more than good luck to actually receive any compensation should they somehow wrongly get a judgment in their favor.

 

I think the only reason Gary Stern doesn't want their current stuff emulated is because he's afraid a good simulation will show what's no good about the products. I highly doubt any of them think simulation is a threat to their market share. That's like Boeing thinking flight simulators are a threat to their market share. Simulators and real pinball machines are apples and oranges.

 

Now maybe they are secretly working on a virtuapin type product. That would be different.

[Itchigo]

Somewhat yes, and no. Legally, we can't make anything but originals, as they own all their stuff, and I believe it is etiquette to hold back.

 

George said that it takes about 1 Million$ for a game to go from concept to reality, so why take a chance? They're just being cautious about anything potentially derailing a new project. Whether what we do is a threat or not, when you shell out that kind of cash, it pays to be cautious.

 

 And Gary and I have talked about a virtuapin type project before (but not through virtuapin ), but he feels vp gameplay isn't good enough for a professional product.

[Dazz]

Personally, I think that anything that's no longer in current distribution is a definite No-Go.  For Stern machines,this would be anything that is on their "Current Titles" list. 

[Dazz]

Yeah. The Dark Knight, Iron Man, Tron and Avatar have all been out in FP for quite some time, and there's never been any issue arise from it. I seriously doubt the lack of rom support matters.

I still see there being a need to limit releases to those machines not currently being manufactured (with a little time given for distributor sell-through), but the rule that states we can't release SAM tables until three years after the end of the SAM platform ends is obviously antiquated.

I totally agree with this... The FP versions have been around for a while now.  Even they aren't using the ROM, they are still ripping the images and audio from the ROM's.  If anyone is going to come at this hobby it's going to be the artwork copywrite holders such as Disney, Warner Bros., etc. The pinball manufactures are not the ones to worry about and so far neither the artwork copywrites nor the pinball manufactures have done or said anything.  Releasing a VP version of these tables is no different than releasing an FP version of them.