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lucky1

PIN2DMD EVO - DMD multicolor now also for DE 128x16 and SEGA 192x64

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On 9/29/2020 at 8:08 PM, lucky1 said:

Maybe the SEGA Display Controller is not working. or your 5V for the SEGA Display Controller is too low.

Did you measure the 5V ? Do you have a 128x32 pin2dmd that is known to be working in a real pin ? You could also do it the other way around and upload the XL DFU to it to see wether it is displaying something  when connected to your machine.

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the pin2dmd 128x32 I don’t have in the city I am in at the moment, but soon there will be some leds I will have some to do the test.  but it’s an interesting idea.  

Anyway, if this could be related to the realpin power supply that I thought I had already discarded because the display turned on only that it was stuck on the PIN2DMD logo, so I didn’t measure the 5v amperage, but today I will do  the test with an external 12v 5A source to answer this question.  

if it’s a problem with the realpin’s feed I’ll be able to find out and discard this.  but if that doesn’t solve, I’ll also do the procedure of reinstalling the firmware and all the configuration from the beginning and use the external source itself to check if this is not the problem.  

I will perform the procedure and post the result.  

just a question ... if i do the procedure in dfuse will i lose the activation key? 

because the plasma display would work and pin2dmd wouldn’t, I’m sorry but I didn’t understand why this reason.  Aren't they basically the same connections and voltages?  

thank you very much for the lucky1 effort and apologize for any inconvenience.  

and I hope that today I can solve it.  

I'm really hoping this will end well.  

thank you

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8 hours ago, kbueno said:

Anyway, if this could be related to the realpin power supply that I thought I had already discarded because the display turned on only that it was stuck on the PIN2DMD logo, so I didn’t measure the 5v amperage, but today I will do  the test with an external 12v 5A source to answer this question.  

I don´t think the 18V is the problem, but on Sega games the 5V is often very bad and is critical. If it is below only a little the Sega display controller will reset constantly.
That is why I asked you to measure the 5V at the connector to the Sega display controller.

8 hours ago, kbueno said:

just a question ... if i do the procedure in dfuse will i lose the activation key?

The activation key will be the same like before when you reinstall the XL software.

8 hours ago, kbueno said:

because the plasma display would work and pin2dmd wouldn’t, I’m sorry but I didn’t understand why this reason.  Aren't they basically the same connections and voltages?  

The problem is not about voltages but about signal quality. A plasma display displays what it gets no matter if the signal quality is bad or good. PIN2DMD needs a good signal quality to process the images. 

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On 10/2/2020 at 1:15 AM, lucky1 said:

I don´t think the 18V is the problem, but on Sega games the 5V is often very bad and is critical. If it is below only a little the Sega display controller will reset constantly.
That is why I asked you to measure the 5V at the connector to the Sega display controller.

The activation key will be the same like before when you reinstall the XL software.

The problem is not about voltages but about signal quality. A plasma display displays what it gets no matter if the signal quality is bad or good. PIN2DMD needs a good signal quality to process the images. 

Hi Lucky1,

I came to give you the result of my experience and the final stage of testing my XL display.  

I will report what I did and the difficulties I encountered during the installation.  

first I want to thank Lucky1 for all their patience and support in helping to solve the problem and the colleagues who expressed it to the forum.  

I performed the installation from the beginning again, passed the firmware slowly from the beginning and some steps seem to have identified that it could be one of the problems.  

The file pin2dmd_xl.upd I renamed it to pin2dmd.upd and I believe that this was one of the factors that caused the problem in the installation of my display in the first moment.  

the correct thing is to use it the way it is.  another problem that I identified was that when I put a color file like the one available on some sites like maverick.pal I had problems with the display.  

the blue signal that flashes that I believe is a data signal was static and when I removed this file the blue light flashed steadily, showing that the display was responding to the data signal and the animations appeared on the screen.  

with this, I was able to make it work with the 18+ machine board connector itself, but MSF seemed to get stuck or fluctuating, I will still do tests with a separate source to see if it will solve the problem.  

but I'm already very happy with the result and knowing that the cards are working.

very grateful for your support.

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Hi Lucky1,

Before I start I just wanna say I appreciate the work you have done on the Pin2dmd and all the support you give. I'm just asking about some ideas and I know this will probably be a long shot or too much work but I'd like to hear your take on this.

I was wondering if it was possible to create a 128x32 display for Data East with the Display PCB integrated on the Pin2dmd PCB like the smaller 128x16 data east Pin2dmd. I understand it was necessary for the x16 display as this was how they originally came.
I understand this would be a niche product but if the design/layout was similar to the x16 one it might not be as much work? Or If it is completely different then that is another story. 

There are a few reasons why this would be ideal for Data East Pinball owners, the first being that you wouldn't have to rely on the separate Display PCB so if that is faulty you wouldn't have to replace that too, also the install would be easier as well. I know a lot of DE pinball owners who have replaced their Display PCB or are in the process of trying to. I had 2 die on me as well.
The other reason would be that upgrading the SD card files when new colour files or versions become available is much easier plus if someone was developing and dumping from the pin the USB would be easier to access and you wouldn't have to pull off the other pcb to get to it.
I'd imagine for this specific design the USB and SD card slot would be moved closer to the centre of the pcb to make it easier to access. I know @dtatane snapped off his USB plug on his Pin2dmd and I almost did the same thing when I was dumping some scenes for him lol. 
I also realise that most games have been done but if others wanted to do their own it's still something to consider.

I was more hoping this would be more of a "move some components to different spots" and a few chips changed kind of thing but it could very well be a big design overhaul and simply not worth it. Either way I thought I would ask your opinion.

Thanks!

 

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8 minutes ago, Terranigma said:

Hi Lucky1,

Before I start I just wanna say I appreciate the work you have done on the Pin2dmd and all the support you give. I'm just asking about some ideas and I know this will probably be a long shot or too much work but I'd like to hear your take on this.

I was wondering if it was possible to create a 128x32 display for Data East with the Display PCB integrated on the Pin2dmd PCB like the smaller 128x16 data east Pin2dmd. I understand it was necessary for the x16 display as this was how they originally came.
I understand this would be a niche product but if the design/layout was similar to the x16 one it might not be as much work? Or If it is completely different then that is another story. 

There are a few reasons why this would be ideal for Data East Pinball owners, the first being that you wouldn't have to rely on the separate Display PCB so if that is faulty you wouldn't have to replace that too, also the install would be easier as well. I know a lot of DE pinball owners who have replaced their Display PCB or are in the process of trying to. I had 2 die on me as well.
The other reason would be that upgrading the SD card files when new colour files or versions become available is much easier plus if someone was developing and dumping from the pin the USB would be easier to access and you wouldn't have to pull off the other pcb to get to it.
I'd imagine for this specific design the USB and SD card slot would be moved closer to the centre of the pcb to make it easier to access. I know @dtatane snapped off his USB plug on his Pin2dmd and I almost did the same thing when I was dumping some scenes for him lol. 
I also realise that most games have been done but if others wanted to do their own it's still something to consider.

I was more hoping this would be more of a "move some components to different spots" and a few chips changed kind of thing but it could very well be a big design overhaul and simply not worth it. Either way I thought I would ask your opinion.

Thanks!

 

All the resources are online, so if anyone wants to start such a project, feel free to take the evo pcb files as a starting point. I don´t have any DE machines, so there is no need for me to use my time on such a pcb design. 

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One additional info: The DE DMD controller uses custom programmed PAL ICs to generate some signals and I´m not sure if their source (JEDEC file) is available.

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On 4/17/2020 at 1:30 PM, dzorbas said:

We have installed one of these panels in a DE Star Trek. The display is not sensing the game and we have tried to manually set it to DE 128x16 with no luck. All we get is the PIN2DMD logo. We have tried two different chips from working displays so we believe that is not the issue. We have tried installing the data cable both ways, again, nothing. We tried resetting the display to default. Still nothing.

I've flashed a lot of EVO boards so I don't believe that is the problem unless I somehow corrupted the firmware file when I downloaded it. It is the same file for the 128x32 right? I have 3 more of these displays that we can test with but was wondering if I'm missing something obvious.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dino Z.

 

 

 

@dzorbas I didn't see an answer on here, did you work it out in the end? I'm having the exact same problem. Have done everything you have explained you tried as well as burning a new Eprom  and matching the existing Display rom version that it came with. Set to DE 128x16, tried data cable both ways, it powers up but it's not getting a signal. z80 is installed the correct way, power connector looks to be correct. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

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2 minutes ago, Terranigma said:

@dzorbas I didn't see an answer on here, did you work it out in the end? I'm having the exact same problem. Have done everything you have explained you tried as well as burning a new Eprom  and matching the existing Display rom version that it came with. Set to DE 128x16, tried data cable both ways, it powers up but it's not getting a signal. z80 is installed the correct way, power connector looks to be correct. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Did you solder these bridges closed?  When the boards are manufactured, they are normally open. If you don't specifically ask, PCBWay will leave them that way. On my second order of the smaller boards, I asked them to do this during assembly. You just need to drop some solder across the pads yourself. If I recall correctly, this fixed my issue.

 

image.png

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10 minutes ago, dzorbas said:

Did you solder these bridges closed?  When the boards are manufactured, they are normally open. If you don't specifically ask, PCBWay will leave them that way. On my second order of the smaller boards, I asked them to do this during assembly. You just need to drop some solder across the pads yourself. If I recall correctly, this fixed my issue.

 

image.png

Can't see the image but I can see what you mean on my board, I will give it a try, thank you!

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2 minutes ago, Terranigma said:

Image isn't showing for me but is it the JP2 solder pads?

How about this image...?  They are the SD1, SD0, DE, RD, RCL, DCL and CL points on the board.

solderpads.png.e8ddc0f5d2abaccb4f7934b7c6dfb219.png

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45 minutes ago, dzorbas said:

How about this image...?  They are the SD1, SD0, DE, RD, RCL, DCL and CL points on the board.

solderpads.png.e8ddc0f5d2abaccb4f7934b7c6dfb219.png

Thank you, yep that is much better. I soldered those together and still no image just the Pin2dmd Logo. Changed the orientation of the data cable and still nothing. I have my own 12v power plug for the pin2dmd as I didn't want the high voltage going to the Pin2dmd, the 2 grounds are bridged on the pin2dmd so I only did the 1 ground and 12v pins. That shouldn't be an issue should it?

Edit: Plugged my original dmd back in with the eprom I burnt and that worked. Tried just using the power plug from the cabinet (dmd power) without my connector I made and no difference. It's TMNT and the eprom is 512 instead of 1024. I've got it in the correct way but is there another jumper somewhere to tell it to read a smaller eprom? I noticed lucky1's has the larger size. I'm also running Pin2dmd fw 3.17.

 

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First off, I'm not sure why you just wouldn't use the power connector from the game. The EVO board is designed to control the amount of current that it needs. There shouldn't be any risk of high voltage or anything like that. Regarding the chip, make sure you position it correctly. Look under the socket on the board. There are two diagrams of where the chip should be positioned. If you have the smaller chip, it needs to be installed further back from the notch.

I'd be concerned that an external power supply doesn't have enough amperage to run the display after the game starts displaying stuff.

It seems like you've covered all of these things. If you reset the display through the menu, if it doesn't automatically sense that it is in a DE 128x16 game, then my guess is that it is data issue.

Maybe @lucky1 can suggest something.

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3 minutes ago, dzorbas said:

First off, I'm not sure why you just wouldn't use the power connector from the game. The EVO board is designed to control the amount of current that it needs. There shouldn't be any risk of high voltage or anything like that. Regarding the chip, make sure you position it correctly. Look under the socket on the board. There are two diagrams of where the chip should be positioned. If you have the smaller chip, it needs to be installed further back from the notch.

I'd be concerned that an external power supply doesn't have enough amperage to run the display after the game starts displaying stuff.

It seems like you've covered all of these things. If you reset the display through the menu, if it doesn't automatically sense that it is in a DE 128x16 game, then my guess is that it is data issue.

Maybe @lucky1 can suggest something.

Thanks for the suggestions and help.
The smaller chip is positioned in line with the lower notch, basically there are 4 pins on the socket spare and these spare pins are closest to the notch of the socket, generally how you would install an eprom in a reader/writer where it sits down the very bottom. I'm now using the power connector from the game directly, still no difference. I measured 12.2v coming from the connector. 

Yep I have reset it, I even re flashed it. 

Ok thanks again for your help. Hopefully Lucky1 has some suggestions.

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I just noticed that there is a new firmware release. I was running either 3.15 or older when I was setting up these displays. I haven't tried the new firmware on anything. Not saying it will make any difference as I'm sure it has been tested on the smaller boards but maybe you want to try an older firmware version.

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12 minutes ago, dzorbas said:

I just noticed that there is a new firmware release. I was running either 3.15 or older when I was setting up these displays. I haven't tried the new firmware on anything. Not saying it will make any difference as I'm sure it has been tested on the smaller boards but maybe you want to try an older firmware version.

Thought the exact same thing. The lowest I could find on my computer was 3.15 and flashed that but no difference. 

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TMNT and CHECKPOINT need ENHANCER set to OFF

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9 minutes ago, lucky1 said:

TMNT and CHECKPOINT need ENHANCER set to OFF

That was it! Thank you.

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54 minutes ago, lucky1 said:

TMNT and CHECKPOINT need ENHANCER set to OFF

Is there a list of exceptions somewhere that people should be aware of? Or do you only stumble across this stuff when you read through every thread on a particular game? This is similar to the issue that I had with Baywatch. The RGB sequence was supposed to be set differently but I was not aware and thought there was something wrong with the displays that we tested.

Perhaps a list could be created somewhere...

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@lucky1 Can I request a design change for the 128x16 pin2dmd files please? This will not just benefit me but everyone who owns a TMNT or I’m guessing checkpoint.

The location of the data pins is too far to the right and the connector hits the backbox door, flexing the led panels and pcb of the pin2dmd. There is a hole cut out for the cables in the backbox door but this isn’t wide enough to accomodate the position of the data cable. By moving the data pins to the left about 1cm or so it should fit perfect. The user will still have to cut out some of the cardboard shielding but that is far easier than having to saw off some wood of your bb door.

I understand that you could probably move the pin2dmd in the speaker panel (and I will try this soon) but then you would have to find a way to mount the lights etc from the speaker panel to the old dmd location.

For people who don’t want to do that or don’t have the skills then I think adjusting the location if this data connector would be ideal and also will still work for hook and I’m assuming Star Trek.

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Terranigma said:

@lucky1 Can I request a design change for the 128x16 pin2dmd files please? This will not just benefit me but everyone who owns a TMNT or I’m guessing checkpoint.

The location of the data pins is too far to the right and the connector hits the backbox door, flexing the led panels and pcb of the pin2dmd. There is a hole cut out for the cables in the backbox door but this isn’t wide enough to accomodate the position of the data cable. By moving the data pins to the left about 1cm or so it should fit perfect. The user will still have to cut out some of the cardboard shielding but that is far easier than having to saw off some wood of your bb door.

I understand that you could probably move the pin2dmd in the speaker panel (and I will try this soon) but then you would have to find a way to mount the lights etc from the speaker panel to the old dmd location.

For people who don’t want to do that or don’t have the skills then I think adjusting the location if this data connector would be ideal and also will still work for hook and I’m assuming Star Trek.

Thanks!

If you look at the first post of this thread you can see that the connector positions are copied from the original cherry 128x16 DMD. There are actually at least two different  original boards which have different connector positions (see picture), so I think there actually is no design which will fit all machines.  I already tried to make a compromise. If you want you can take the source files from my github and make your own version of the pcb.

IMG_2805.jpg

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2 hours ago, lucky1 said:

If you look at the first post of this thread you can see that the connector positions are copied from the original cherry 128x16 DMD. There are actually at least two different  original boards which have different connector positions (see picture), so I think there actually is no design which will fit all machines.  I already tried to make a compromise. If you want you can take the source files from my github and make your own version of the pcb.

IMG_2805.jpg

Ok thank you.

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