DJRobX

New VPX feature - Surround sound output

46 posts in this topic

Have added @arngrim 's and @DJRobX 's additional stuff to the default table. Thanks guys!

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18 hours ago, toxie said:

I'll also try backporting your changes to VP9.9 and PM5, just so that one could use the same sound setup/settings. Or do you think this is unnecessary?

Oh I think doing so is a very good idea.   Like you said, unless VP9 / PhysMod gets the update, you can't assign the sounds properly off a single card, and I really want to ditch my second card.  Too many VP9 / PhysMod tables to ignore, so it's worthwhile I think. 

I'm pretty sure this sound code hasn't changed much (except you guys straightened out the nasty "*BG* hack thing) so it should be easy to backport.

 

 

 

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hmmm.. actually its not that simple, also i don't really like that the saved files will be incompatible then..  :/

this could lead to some confusion if authors use the new variant with surround but ppl still have the original VP9/VP9PM5 exes on their machines and are paranoid to (not) update..

@DJRobX: You think you could tailor something inbetween for these versions? Like not touching the table data (e.g. no surround then) but just pimping the sound dialog and direct sound part?

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Yes that's really easy, just leave all the sound manger stuff out of it.    

It is worth noting though that having the extra stuff data at the end of the sound entries surprisingly doesn't appear to break backward compatibility.    I converted WCS back to VP 10.3 by just loading it in 10.3 and re-saving.   It gives you a warning, but the older VP seems to be able to skip over the extra data without a problem.

 

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Hmmm.. That's true, yes, as this is how the data storage works.

But still we would have to increase the file version, as otherwise the loader would not know what to do.

I would then go for the solution that leave everything as is, except for the actual sound driver code and sound dialog.

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Yep.   Really that's fine, as long as the user can input their config and have the table sounds coming from the correct speakers it's worthwhile.   I think the only option that becomes redundant is the "Front is front" and "Front is rear"  options, as they'd be the same without forward/backward positional control.     The remaining 3 options (all rear options, "front is front" and 7.1) will still will place the table sounds in different positions on the virtual field even without scripting or sound manager settings. 

 

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On 7/17/2017 at 10:23 PM, toxie said:

Thanks for the additional explanations.. I also wanted to post something and then forgot about it again..  :/

I'll also try backporting your changes to VP9.9 and PM5, just so that one could use the same sound setup/settings. Or do you think this is unnecessary?

Now there's an interesting question... what will my cab sound like when I play a VP9 table?  I've not tested that, as I never play anything but VPX these days, but I will test that now. ;)

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Good News!! I have an pmd setup with 2.1 amplifier with 2 speakers and shakers in front of the cab (connected to PF tv. For rom and backglass sound i have an external usb device called Asus xonar U7, thats an own 2.1 for now. How will i do to only use my U7. Can i buy one more 2.1 setup like that i use from tv now and connect all to my U7 to get this new surround to work 7.1 together? Sorry for my bad english :)

Skickat från min E2303 via Tapatalk

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On 7/18/2017 at 10:11 PM, RustyCardores said:

Now there's an interesting question... what will my cab sound like when I play a VP9 table?  I've not tested that, as I never play anything but VPX these days, but I will test that now. ;)

It will be the same as running VP 10.3.   Which is to say it will send the table sounds out the FR and FL channels.     That's not ideal (and is horribly not ideal if you're using a single sound card).  which is why we're talking about backporting the speaker config changes.   :)

20 hours ago, Krille81 said:

Good News!! I have an pmd setup with 2.1 amplifier with 2 speakers and shakers in front of the cab (connected to PF tv. For rom and backglass sound i have an external usb device called Asus xonar U7, thats an own 2.1 for now. How will i do to only use my U7. Can i buy one more 2.1 setup like that i use from tv now and connect all to my U7 to get this new surround to work 7.1 together? Sorry for my bad english :)

Yes!  With this new surround feature you can now run everything off your U7.     You can also use your current setup with just the U7 now and have it use the backglass speakers for surround effect, or you can add another 2.1 amp and put more speakers inside the cab.   For all speakers off the U7 in 7.1 mode,  connect FR and FL to the backbox,  SR and SL to the rear of the cab, and RR and RL to the front of the cab.   Tell windows you have no center channel and no sub to make it a 6.0 setup. 

And for anyone who's looking at this and wants an example table, Alessio took my updated WCS 94 table, which will do surround sound if it's running on 10.4  

 

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@DJRobX: I just merged some of your changes into both VP9.9.X and VP9PM5, could you please look at it again AND test on your surround setup?

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Just checked it out.    Seems to work perfectly.    Awesome!   

As I mentioned before the "Front is front" and "front is rear" are identical in VP9 because nothing deviates from the middle.     But I think it's best to leave it exactly as it is. 

Thanks!! 

 

 

 

 

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Ahh this is great.   Now that I have Vp9 and PhysMod with surround, I switched to a single sound card 7.1 6ch setup "permanently".     The best part is that the volume control finally works uniformly.   Thanks again Toxie!

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How did you guys know, that I recently added two speakers to my playfield ;) ?

BTW: I will soon write a tutorial how to use music VST plugin technology in a pinball cabinet. Since I am hobby musician and quite familiar with VST plugins, hosts and such gadgets, I can no longer imagine to drive my cabinet without it.  

You won't believe, what magic stereo enhancers, equalizers and compressors can do for your ears :P

 

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On 7/20/2017 at 7:00 AM, DJRobX said:

IAnd for anyone who's looking at this and wants an example table, Alessio took my updated WCS 94 table, which will do surround sound if it's running on 10.4 

So it is already in the version 1.0 of WCS94?

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Yep.   I put IF version_major > 10 or version_minor > 3 around the 9 parameter version of the PlaySound calls, so it will work with 10.3 or 10.4.

The only thing about the VST plugin is that I don't know what will happen with a surround-sound source.   It should be fine as long as the software supports multi-channel setups, but the built-in Realtek EQ for example only seems to have an effect on the front 2 channels. 

 

 

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On 21.7.2017 at 4:50 PM, DJRobX said:

The only thing about the VST plugin is that I don't know what will happen with a surround-sound source.   It should be fine as long as the software supports multi-channel setups, but the built-in Realtek EQ for example only seems to have an effect on the front 2 channels. 

Well, we will see, when your new system will be public, but since most VST hosts are multichannel capable, surround channel routing through the different plugins should be possible. You are absolutely right, that some plugins will route only stereo sources, but then you can use the same plugin multiple times and each one routes two different channels. I already use this technique in VP 10.3 with ONE soundcard and two virtual audio cables to support two pairs of speakers (BG and PF).

Sounds difficult, but some screenshots will show, that it is quite easy actually. And the difference is not subtile, it is huge ;)

BTW: There are a lot of great free plugins (and some plugin hosts either)  !

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Ginsonic said:

Well, we will see, when your new system will be public, but since most VST hosts are multichannel capable, surround channel routing through the different plugins should be possible.

Yep I would think so too.    You can grab the build in the first page to try it out.    Toxie integrated it into the mainline VP so tables you save will be compatible.  I also have used VPX 10.3 to load a saved table, and they give you a warning but they don't break, so it's pretty safe to use. 

 

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:blush: I actually overlooked the build, thanks. I will try to route it through my plugin host soon !

 

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