russdx1 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Does any one Know this guy or his store? http://www.vpin-shop.de/epages/64158583.mobile/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/64158583/Products/60001 He is selling clones of the pinDMD2 using MINE and Virtuapins pinDMD2 firmware without our permission. Also found this. http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php?t=155221&page=1 Any one heard of this german store or know dealt/ordered from it before? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted August 10, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 10, 2015 I've seen a few guys on VPF recommend vpin-shop.de to some german folks, that's about the extent of my knowledge. I recall Noah being quite adept at this practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randr Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Wish I could read German Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Dazz Posted August 10, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sorry Russ. He is a member here, but never posted and I've never heard anything about this till now. This really doesn't surprise me though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukedock Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Russ - do you have a patent and good lawyers? I do remember seeing that you could download the firmware?You made a great product for the community. This really sucks for you. But people will order the cheapest for them without consideration to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider arngrim Posted August 11, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 11, 2015 it's time for a pindmd3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 No patent. But hes not just made his own version hes actually using my firmware which is just plain stealing. I cant stop him selling the stm dev kit (which is basically what he is doing) but he is selling it with my firmware the kit is useless without my firmware. He even posts a link to MY install guide. Next step from me will be a cease and desist letter from my solicitor. I think it is time for a pinDMD3 maybe something with 80bit firmware encryption? stop people ripping it off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpad Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Only wrote some emails with him when he launched the shop one year ago. Back then he was re-selling the original pindmd. Personally I liked the idea of a German based shop, because of heavy import taxes from the US. But back then I had already built my cab with Noahs parts... This certainly is no nice thing to do. I'm German and I could translate if necessary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hey mpad are you a member of the http://www.flippermarkt.de/ Getting access when you dont speak german is quite difficult lol even with a translater. Also does not seem to activate my membership hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider lucky1 Posted August 11, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 11, 2015 Russel, instead of letting your solicitor earn money with it, why don´t you offer him to license the software from you to legally use it with his hardware ? Lucky1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Dazz Posted August 11, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 11, 2015 No patent. But hes not just made his own version hes actually using my firmware which is just plain stealing. I cant stop him selling the stm dev kit (which is basically what he is doing) but he is selling it with my firmware the kit is useless without my firmware. He even posts a link to MY install guide. Next step from me will be a cease and desist letter from my solicitor. I think it is time for a pinDMD3 maybe something with 80bit firmware encryption? stop people ripping it off! Perhaps not selling out to a crook wouldn't be a bad idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider lucky1 Posted August 11, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 11, 2015 In the german forum the owner of the shop stated that he was in contact with Russel about this. I don´t know about the results of the conversation. Don´t you think we should let him tell his perspective before we call him a crook ? @Russel Did you send him an e-mail ? His address is [email protected] ? Personally, I built my own pindmd2 interface using the stm discovery board after I had an e-mail conversation with Russel asking where I can get the pindmd2 interface in europe. We then talked about the usage of the development board as an pindmd alternative and he told me that he used that himself for software development and testing but is not allowed to give me further information. However, selling the intellectual property of someone else without permission is not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider freneticamnesic Posted August 11, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 11, 2015 In the german forum the owner of the shop stated that he was in contact with Russel about this. I don´t know about the results of the conversation. Don´t you think we should let him tell his perspective before we call him a crook ? @Russel Did you send him an e-mail ? His address is [email protected] ? Personally, I built my own pindmd2 interface using the stm discovery board after I had an e-mail conversation with Russel asking where I can get the pindmd2 interface in europe. We then talked about the usage of the development board as an pindmd alternative and he told me that he used that himself for software development and testing but is not allowed to give me further information. However, selling the intellectual property of someone else without permission is not okay. Dazz isn't calling the owner of vpin-shop.de a crook (even though he is a crook) he's referring to VirtuaPin And either way, the fact that russdx said it's not permitted, though they're selling it, kind of makes vpin-shop the definition of a crook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 I have sent an email to the stores contact form. I will also send one to that email. Asking for the product to be removed. I have never once given permission for a clone of pinDMD to be created or have my firmware used on any other hardware apart from the pinDMD hardware. This is why i said i couldnt give out any further infomation on the pinDMD. But all the pinouts have clearly been reversed engineered and now my firmware is being sold on none pinDMD device which is illegal. I am currently in the process of licening the pinDMD with virtuapin. So any lucebce deals would need to be taken up with Noah. But just taking it is not a good start tbh! I cant stop people creating there own device which does exactly what the pinDMD does. But I can stop people just ripping my firmware i spent months creating and thousands developing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider lucky1 Posted August 11, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 11, 2015 Ok ! Sorry I didn´t understand that Dazz was referring to VirtuaPin. Since VP is open source I would prefer that all development around it is also open source or the interfaces are standardized. Other combinations always lead to problems. A good example is that the vpinmame.dll from unite3d pinball beta is not SAM compatible and the SAM vpinmame.dll not with unit3d. I hate it. Life could be so easy without money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Sadly it costs money to develop these products and selling them is how you recoup this money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider lucky1 Posted August 11, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 11, 2015 You are right, but what is also sad is that when you need a PinDMD in Europe you pay double the price because of shipping, tax etc. Maybe you or Noah can do something about that. I would prefer to give you the money instead of the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Yes something does need to be done about euoupion sales and i will try and sort this out. The legal way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjoke Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hi. I´m the one who are all talking about.... Russ I asked you before I have done this!! I asked you if you have a problem that I sell a board which members can flash your firmaware on it.... Your answer was: "Thats not my problem....do what you want.... I haven´t any IP on it...."" I also asked you, if there are any copyrights ore patents on it...... You told me:" no" So what´s the problem??? I ONLY sell boards where customers are able to flash the pindmd2 firmware, which is still downloadable for free (!!) on the pindmd homepage.... Also the Manual is there for free..... If I do something illegal, please tell me what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjoke Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 One more point I have to say..... Russ, I respect your doing, and I know, that your brainstorm of hundreds of hours have lifted up playing a VPIN into a new level !!! At last: You can´t license your board after selling it for a couple of years..... The license has to be done before selling it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjoke Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I have removed the board from my shop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Firmware is not on my site. And now I have to remove my installation guide as well, because appently if its online its now automatically free! The board was designed soly to run firmware not developed by you. All the hardwork and money is in that firmware. I cant see how you dont see what you was doing was wrong? It was a fun product for the community it shouldn't need patents and copyrights but it looks like it does which i will have to arrange. I can sell it / licence it as i created it. Its mine to do what i want with. I also did not say not my problem i said you would need Noahs pwrmission which i said he will not give and you clearly did not ask him. You also had no mention of selling it. You have removed the link from your store so i am happy with this and i will leave the whole situation at that. And i will sort out the whole European sales thing! PinDMD3 is in dev and will be incredibly secure this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Oh and just had a look at my pinDMD site and if you look bottom left it is actually copyrighted, forgot i added this in 2012! Also might want to give this a read http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russdx1 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 www.pindmd.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Content Provider lucky1 Posted August 12, 2015 Content Provider Share Posted August 12, 2015 The most flexible solution would be when you or Noah sell / license the software / firmware without hardware. Payment could be easily done with paypal worldwide. No shipping costs etc. In that way you could benefit no matter which hardware it runs on or who build it. To get a patent on it could be hard because it was not your idea initially. In fact you just ported and improved the idea from here http://www.benheck.com/run-your-pinball-dmd-with-a-parallax-propeller/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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