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freneticamnesic

[Vp10] Tron (Conversion From Fp) (Vpx Beta)

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I'm not talking about my physics anymore, if you have a problem, deal with it. I'm not changing it. End of discussion.

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Sorry for everyone I got riled up by the other poster, and it seems this is how fren wants it so be it.

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I don't think anyone has problems with discussions of physics kaan, but the same issue is brought up again and again and again. I totally understand issues don't get resolved unless they are brought up but boy do I totally get Fren and Icpjuggla's take here

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Sorry fren, i dont want to spam this thread. This is just for icp... Over months you are stalking ck. I dont know why you do this and why you think its good to be that Kind of angry in an open community. What i can say about CK is that i love his attitude to see every detail and his sense for perfection. I think its not necessary to say that he is always friendly and helpful. Without him i would have never ever started to create tables in VP. Think about it...

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It's not stalking bro. I'm an active member of this comunity.. Think about that!!!

You too are "friends" according to CK so I'm not surprised you'll jump on the bandwagon and defend him.. Witch I totally understand, I don't have a problem with you or Kaan. As I've said before maybe CK should think about what he is saying before he types it.. Some people including me take all his nagging and complaining as negative comments b/c it's always about the same crap. Never a nice thing to say and always a but! It gets old and many of us around here are sick of it! It's b/c of people like him we only have a few authors left. When I got into this comunity there were over 20 or 30 authors look at it now what are there maybe 5 to 10 now.. think about that! Keep pissing us all off and you'll have no tables to play..

Maybe us authors will just start showing awesome screen shots of tables and stop releasing them and only share them with friends! b/c pretty soon that's prob the route I'm going to go b/c I'm sick of it as I know many others are too.

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For sure CK brings a lot of positive to the community too but for some people the "but" is abrasive because of the constant nature of it. It may not be meant that way but that's the effect. Although I am 100% certain there is a positive intent behind it, the quest for perfection should not be targeted to everyone and artistic interpretation by the authors, as like in every work that involves personal commitment, creativity and sacrifice (which I believe applies to authors and their tables) should be considered as "not needing to be changed". I think that is something for all to think about anyway.

No one should paint guys like Fren or icpjuggla with a broad stroke that says they have a short fuse or don't want their tables to play well, that is undeserving considering the amount of testing, taking in constructive criticism and updates that they put into their tables in the past. If they have a point to make, it's earned that it should be considered and maybe respectfully understood, if not 100% in agreement.

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I think you two guys should talk in chatroom together and lay down all the problems.

 

For my personal preference i don´t make a difference between table authors, db2s backglass designer, guys who make redraws or any other stuff

to make vp better. Ck provided a lot (his indiana jones redraw is "state of the art"). You say its the fault of people like him to loose authors. I say its your fault

to loose conent providers like him too.

 

But all besides that, it must be allowed to ask questions without a "why do you not come up with a solution" mentality. For his question about friction...,

i don´t know it too why on some tables it does work and on other it does not. You as an author should know that the editor in vp is tricky. I think not everyone must be a

wizard with it...

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Well I've already expressed my opinions on the matter and sitting down and talking it out in a chat would accomplish nothing. I'm sure things would be said and taken the wrong way in the heat of the moment..

I guess the solution here is to just put certain members on ignore. I should of done that a wile ago.. I'll do that and let someone else step up and say something from now on about all the negativity, nagging and bringing up the same stuff over and over.. So with that said you heard it here 1st I won't say another word unless it's a direct comment or digg at me personally.. Feel free to light it up, complain and put people's work down, I guess it's open season now b/c I'm done dealing with it!

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well enough of negativeness...

i would be glad to change the physics myself, but all i can do is change flipper settings, so if someone experimented can guide us how to finetune a table like this, this will help a lot of us in once

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Well I've already expressed my opinions on the matter and sitting down and talking it out in a chat would accomplish nothing. I'm sure things would be said and taken the wrong way in the heat of the moment..

I guess the solution here is to just put certain members on ignore. I should of done that a wile ago.. I'll do that and let someone else step up and say something from now on about all the negativity, nagging and bringing up the same stuff over and over.. So with that said you heard it here 1st I won't say another word unless it's a direct comment or digg at me personally.. Feel free to light it up, complain and put people's work down, I guess it's open season now b/c I'm done dealing with it!

Am I on your ignore list you never answer my pm's! :)

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Am I on your ignore list you never answer my pm's! :)

No way randr we are def. cool... :-) I haven't gotten any PM's from you man, hit me up any time if you want to talk.. :-)

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I'll say my piece. Yes, I see what you're talking about, I've seen the flipper react oddly with the ball, but the problem is if I adjust it to fix something that occurs once a game (for me), it negatively affects the flipper behavior for the rest of the game. I've heard it a lot from arngrim, and it annoys me because he has told me he doesn't play real pins so getting physics feedback from him is like getting financial advice from....me... but trust me, I've seen the issue. If you check my youtube channel (please subscribe) you'll see my latest AMH video, a couple minutes into it you see a ball on the flipper, cradles, and another ball hits the flipper and ball at the same time, and takes off like a rocket. What the fuck is that? There's nothing inherently wrong with my friction, elasticity etc settings, but for some reason it just wigs out. The only solution is to apparently change those settings, but that will change the way the rest of the game feels for me and it's just not worth it.

I don't want to shit on your opinions, but I've heard the same thing over and over, and if I haven't fixed it yet, in however many tables, there's a good chance I'm not going to fix it. So if it bothers you that much, play another table - or adapt the physics from that table to my table and feel free to share your settings or release a patch, but I do not endorse any physics changes because it will not play the way that I feel it needs to be played, even if there is a little hiccup here and there. It's open source and I'm recreating tables that others have spent their time on, so I can't tell you not to change them. I embrace that aspect of this hobby. That's why groni is such a shit, lock the table so we can't change it. none of that is his idea, so why should he even be able to lock it down? whatever that's another issue entirely.

 

Physics are the most debatable thing in a table build, if what we're debating when I've released a mod or a complete table build, is the physics, then fuck it man I'm happy. But know that I am shitlisting you if you dare tell me to make my physics like another table.

 

Here's what you should do in the future:

"hey, I noticed odd ball behavior on the flippers, try these settings they seem to work for me..."

 

:D

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the fact that i don't play to real pins or not doesn't matter, i can look dozens of youtube videos of real pins just like anyone, there's no need to feel anything, just watching the ball sliding on the playfield or on lanes, or flippers, bouncing on objects, it has nothing to do with i am an experienced real pin player or not

ok that's good that i know that you have seen the issue as well, now like i say, if anyone has a solution, im' sure even you would be interested to know, that was the reason of my post, no blaming to your work at all, you are doing a fantastic work

on my part, i continously have plenty of things to do about dof, today i modded 4 tables, and approved 5 other ones, after work, so i'm sticking to what i'm good at and contribute to the community that way, that's the best that i can do

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This hobby is like buying a used car or better still getting a free used car. You get the tables "as is" with the previous owners ass shape worn into the seats. The car is yours now, if it pulls to the right then you better fix it, live with it, or junk it. The previous owner owes you nothing, but often times will do a major fix within the first week or so just to keep their good name. If I was giving away a car and the person that I was giving the car to said they didn't like the color, I'd feel like punching them or at least taking the car away from them. You don't deserve the free car. If someone gave you a nice free car, you better say something nice and stow the buts or get kicked in the butt. You just got a real nice gift and you should just smile and say thank you.

 

If you want perfection in physics then start collecting real pinball tables, because you're never going to see it here. These fake tables have come a long way and are really very playable "as is". So learn to fix the brakes and adjust the carb yourself or take the bus!

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There are many factors at play.   If you mess around with the flipper elasticity, and the table friction, you will find results.   In my experience, it has more to do with the table friction.  (I prefer Butterfields) :)  If you play pinball on an old EM, with a worn playfield, you will notice this type of ball friction more often than on a newly waxed surface. It is partially a personal preference, and that is what is so awesome about being able to open up the editor and play with these settings yourself.

 

I have found settings that I prefer with Frens tables, over the default ones that he provides.   I showed him my results, and he didn't like them.   That's fine.  Before PM5, we didn't have any sort of reaction from ball spin.  I think the new VPX physics settings are awesome.

 

Fren works his ass off to make a table, and is proud of what he's done, and he is hearing... "Why don't you make your tables more like AuthorX?"  I can understand how that would be frustrating.  If you've never opened the editor, or worked on a table, you really have no idea the amount of work involved.

 

I don't really think the original poster was meaning any disrespect.  I don't really hang around on the forums too much, so I don't know what has been said in the past...  I just wanted to give my 2c on this thread.

 

Yours Truly,

Captain Butterfield.

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Rawd, if you can explain what settings you adjusted. That would be really helpful I think. I don't really have a problem with Fren's tables but it would be great to see other options and the knowledge of further thinkering. I'm assuming table and flipper settings, are there others anything in the script?

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Rawd, if you can explain what settings you adjusted. That would be really helpful I think. I don't really have a problem with Fren's tables but it would be great to see other options and the knowledge of further thinkering. I'm assuming table and flipper settings, are there others anything in the script?

 

Yeah..   Once you start playing with the elasticity and flippers and table friction, then other factors come into play..  (rubber elasticity, table slope, gravity constant...  ALOT)...  Nothing in the script.     It is different for all tables.

 

Open up a table and play around.

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Just read this whole thread. I can't say it enough: I am blown away by the generosity of you VP Devs. Alongside the countless Linux Distros I love to play around with, VP is the single greatest gift (if it's free - it's a gift) in the digital realm. Thank you for countless hours of fun - not only in playing the tables, but also reading about your development process.

Amazing community.

(And Tron looks amazing. Can't wait to try it. Love the idea of FP conversion. Watched a few of Fren's conversion vids on YouTube. Fascinating.)

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